So why are some snatchy and some not ??? - Suzuki GSXS1000 Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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So why are some snatchy and some not ???

My Triton blue GSXS1000F build date 09/15 when purchased was impossible to ride at a constant speed as the throttle was way too sensitive causing the speed to increase and decrease when any pebbles or bumps on the road were hit from the minute i rode it out the door from new, that was much improved with a throttle tamer, this also helped with the on/off fuel cut that can occur on some of our bikes.

At a constant low speed my bike had the rough surging problem some of our bikes have, it was not too bad but enough to be annoying when slowing cruising around town, this was helped slightly with the TPS set by the dealer under waranty but was fixed with an 02 eliminator stopping the bike running lean as it goes into closed loop mode at constant speed.
This though causes the bike to run rich so next a power commander with an auto tuner has smoothed the bike out somewhat and has the fuel running at a perfect 13.3/1 right across the rev range but even with all this the throttle can still be very responsive at times.

So why am i posting the obvious here, well a couple of weeks ago a friend brought the exact same bike from the same dealer brand new in the crate with an 11/15 build date so only two months after mine and a couple of days ago he asked me to take his 900km old bike for a ride as he has read and heard so much of the snatchy throttle and he could not feel any problems with his.

Guess what, from the first release of the clutch his bike felt so much better than mine even with all my additions and he agreed as he rode mine, the throttle was so controllable and smooth, the low constant speed surging did not exist and i could not even feel the fuel cut kicking back in after releasing the throttle, the throttle had to be twisted to increase speed just like it should like my previous bikes all were.

So why are they like this, what is the tolerance that must be so fine that distinguishes each bike, same model, same ECU so same fuel map and timing and the TPS set, i'm lost.

Previous bikes
1982 YZ80J
1977 TS185
1981 XR500
1994 GSX750 Katana (Popup)
1981 GSX1100
1999 GSX750F
2008 GSX1400
Current bikes
2005 V-Strom 650 Blue
2016 GSXS1000F Blue
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post #2 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 08:09 AM
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The problem is that Suzuki are using an engine that was designed in the late 90's/early 2000's (operational from 2005) and using electronics to try to get it run to Euro 4 emissions standards. The ONLY reason for doing this is cost. They could run the later GSX-R engines (2009 onwards) and you'd have no fueling issues whatsoever and conform to Euro 4 but at an additional cost. I believe they've tried to cash in on the K5 engines reputation, which ran great with 2005 emissions requirements, and used it as a marketing tool whilst cutting costs. What you've got is a bike with a reputation for poor fueling, which massively affects it desirability and value.
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post #3 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 08:20 AM
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Interesting!
Personally, as an electrical engineer with far too many years of component level fault finding behind me I have found it slightly off putting that so many people have managed to adjust their TPS accurately to 0.01 of a volt.
Having used many different meters over the years and dozens of different leads, I know it's very difficult in the best of conditions with the best meter and leads to be that accurate. Even the pressure you place between the lead and the contact point can make a difference in some instances.
Cue dos to those that have done it and got and improvement, I'm truly pleased for them but I did expect more people to be trying it and then coming back here saying it did not working for them. Especially as some of their meters was possibly some Lowes/ B & Q/ Radio spares cheep crap off the shelf item compared to what I've had access to.
Maybe you could try your TPS adjustment again and this time try it 0.1v either side of the recommended voltage and see if that makes any difference to your set up or take a reading off your mates bike and compare that to yours. If it's different try resetting yours to the same reading.

Good luck

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post #4 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kernowjim View Post
The problem is that Suzuki are using an engine that was designed in the late 90's/early 2000's (operational from 2005) and using electronics to try to get it run to Euro 4 emissions standards. The ONLY reason for doing this is cost. They could run the later GSX-R engines (2009 onwards) and you'd have no fueling issues whatsoever and conform to Euro 4 but at an additional cost. I believe they've tried to cash in on the K5 engines reputation, which ran great with 2005 emissions requirements, and used it as a marketing tool whilst cutting costs. What you've got is a bike with a reputation for poor fueling, which massively affects it desirability and value.
I understand what your saying here and also i am a believer of this bike being a performance bike not fully designed slow speed street bike at it runs awesomely out the ride but why do they vary from bike to bike so much.

Previous bikes
1982 YZ80J
1977 TS185
1981 XR500
1994 GSX750 Katana (Popup)
1981 GSX1100
1999 GSX750F
2008 GSX1400
Current bikes
2005 V-Strom 650 Blue
2016 GSXS1000F Blue
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post #5 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
Interesting!
Personally, as an electrical engineer with far too many years of component level fault finding behind me I have found it slightly off putting that so many people have managed to adjust their TPS accurately to 0.01 of a volt.
Having used many different meters over the years and dozens of different leads, I know it's very difficult in the best of conditions with the best meter and leads to be that accurate. Even the pressure you place between the lead and the contact point can make a difference in some instances.
Cue dos to those that have done it and got and improvement, I'm truly pleased for them but I did expect more people to be trying it and then coming back here saying it did not working for them. Especially as some of their meters was possibly some Lowes/ B & Q/ Radio spares cheep crap off the shelf item compared to what I've had access to.
Maybe you could try your TPS adjustment again and this time try it 0.1v either side of the recommended voltage and see if that makes any difference to your set up or take a reading off your mates bike and compare that to yours. If it's different try resetting yours to the same reading.

Good luck
The TPS adjustment does help going by the feedback on the forum from others but never completely fixes all the issues i believe , also there is no way i would ask someone to let me strip down their perfectly running brand new bike for testing purposes

Also my TPS was adjusted by the dealer using the diagnostic tool which uses the data in the ECU to set by degrees and not by voltage, maybe it could have been set a bit further but from what he altered it the difference was minimal

Previous bikes
1982 YZ80J
1977 TS185
1981 XR500
1994 GSX750 Katana (Popup)
1981 GSX1100
1999 GSX750F
2008 GSX1400
Current bikes
2005 V-Strom 650 Blue
2016 GSXS1000F Blue

Last edited by nicka; 04-27-2017 at 08:54 AM.
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post #6 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
The TPS adjustment does help going by the feedback on the forum from others but never completely fixes all the issues i believe
True TPS is for throttle snatch only. Throttle cut at 2-3k is something completely different and will need another fix.

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also there is no way i would ask someone to let me strip down their perfectly running brand new bike for testing purposes
Chicken My Old mum says it never hurts to ask....but it might hurt if you don't

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Also my TPS was adjusted by the dealer using the diagnostic tool which uses the data in the ECU to set by degrees and not by voltage
I'd expect it to be right then. But the cynic in me would still want to move it and try it for myself.

All I've go left is "octane" I don't know what fuel you are using but there have been some reports of using too high an octane level making them a bit jumpy. Personally I haven't tried it myself so I don't know the extent of this.

Soz,
That's all I've got. And if someone does have the full answer I'd bet it wouldn't be an issue for much longer

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post #7 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 09:45 AM
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nicka - That does seem strange. Mine was manufactured 8/15 and does not have the problem. Just so you know there was no magic fix that happened in the two months after you got yours. Your friend and I did buy ours later (me just a month ago). Is there a chance the factory did post manufacture flash on some un-shipped bikes (I doubt it)?
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post #8 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 02:20 PM
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Maybe I'm just cynical, but I wouldn't trust the dealer on the critcal adjustment of the TPS. Just tightening the locking bolt can cause it change out of range. Have you checked the "-C00" in the display in diagnostic (or is it dealer?) mode? Not just at idle, but checking that just a slight rise in RPM to around 1300 or 1400 the line moves to the top. (You have to do this slowly as there is a slight delay in the response of the indicator.) At least that would be a much simpler initial check than doing the voltage check where you need the adapter cable and fairing removal.

Since the ECUs and wiring are the same on all these bikes, I wonder if there aren't other sensors, in addition to the TPS (for example, the secondary TPS) ,where there can be minor variations in the adjustment that would affect fueling. Sometimes variations can cancel out, but sometimes they can add to produce an undesirable result.
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--Gary

2016 GSX-S1000F, Red/Black
2014 V-Strom 1000
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post #9 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 02:29 PM
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Also, I'm embarrassed to have to ask this, but where does one find the build date?

--Gary

2016 GSX-S1000F, Red/Black
2014 V-Strom 1000
2012 DR650
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post #10 of 64 Old 04-27-2017, 03:00 PM
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TPS never made a difference on mine. What did resolve my issue with throttle and fuel cut was when installed pcv.... ultimately adding fuel to the affected ranges.... smoothing out in the fuel map.... letting autotune do it's thing for a while.... throttle tamer...and finely adjusting the throttle cable.... that last one made a bigger difference than you would expect..... my bike rides almost as smooth as a Honda now


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