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woolich ignition timing

7K views 11 replies 8 participants last post by  londonboards 
#1 ·
hey guys, just bought the full woolich tune setup including the autotune.

just curious if anyone has done anything with ignition timing? before anyone asks, no, i am not a newbie when it comes to tuning, engines or anything i have experience... i want to dyno tune it for the ignition timing but curious if anyone has done any work with the timing tables and gained any power? i searched quite a bit and didnt find any real answer to this question
 
#4 ·
My bike was tuned by a very reputable race mechanic and I asked about ignition timing.
The simple answer was that there are very little gains to be made. In saying that he did change them, i have no idea in what way.
The real gains came from the fuel map.
 
#5 ·
There are gains to be made with ignition timing not many dyno housing get involved, preferring to just setup fuelling. You need extra kit like either det cans or a det sensor fitted on the bike with det sensing electronics. Its said you need a light drum, dynojet drun is deemedtoo heavy, and an eddy current brake with a torque sensor strapped to it to measure live torque. Up shot is if the dyno guy messes up you end up with engine damage a lot quicker than if it leans out.
Its a while since I looked at the ignition on the GSXS1000 but I did change the maps in the earlier gears which pepped it up.
 
#6 ·
Hello

I've only just seen this - for some reason.

I am about to mess with the ignition timing on my GSXS using the Woolich Software but only in as much as I'm playing with the Unifying option.

The GSXS has 4 ignition maps, Neutral, 1-2, 3 and 4-6. The Unifying option allows you to choose one of those maps and apply them to all the others.



As far as I know, and by looking at the maps, it appears that gears 1-2 and 3 are slightly detuned. Reason being, I suppose, is that they were too aggressive as they were (is there such a thing as too aggressive? Lol). So I am going to see what that does.

I have a dyno, so I can sort of test it but it's tricky doing dyno runs in lower gears, so I don't know how that will work out.

As for changing the maps themselves, as opposed to only Unifying them, I would not get involved in that myself unless I was a racer and had a whole new level of expertise. And as the guy above has said, I would need to get a torque cell for my dyno, which is another $1,000.

So basically, I don't see the point in it at my level of riding and tuning skills.

You can see my progress if you take a look at the links in my signature below.

Greetings
 
#8 ·
I am bored today. It took me a while just to find this thread. And, I see its six months old. The thread starter "fieromx3" posed a great question. I tried to post a response about this exact topic and my thread was stopped and was delayed for "moderator" approval. Needless to say, the approval never happened. There are SO many opinions on the web without facts to back them up. So, lets be clear. This is FACT. Timing is were the OEM pulls back most of the HP. Whether for safety, traction or emissions. This is the FIRST or SECOND place to DE-RESTRICT an ECM calibration. First may be STP's. Saying there are little gains to be made couldn't be further from the truth. Remember the 1999 Hyabusa and the advent of the TRE? That's the Timing Retard Eliminator! This is were the OEM kills power usually in the first 3 gears. The GSXS1000 is absolutely NO different. The OEM kills the timing. Just Freakin kills it. Timing is the primary cause of the snatchy throttle. Fueling is just a part of it. You need to really know and understand what a timing map typically looks like. The map in our bike isn't a normal looking map. What you see is what the engineers had to do with it to maintain emissions and limit power. Its butchered. Its horrible. AND, what you see is only a SMALL SMALL SMALL portion of what Woolich exposes. There are HUNDREDS of maps used by the ECU in VARIOUS conditions that are not exposed for modification.

That was my primary focus when I started to change the calibration. Timing. And what else is incorrect info, is that modern bikes are tuned RICH from the factory. NOT lean. They will tune lean at a low throttle position to pass emissions. Then, they go rich. The OEM has a HUGE amount of variables to tune for as they have to adjust for the ambient temp, elevation you ride, water vapor, engine load and more. So, the safest way is to ad a bit more fuel. Then, I see tuners showing AFR graphs and tuning to them with "after cat" readings. OMG, I'm glad they are not working on my bike. EVERY FI bike Ive ever owned, I PULLED more fuel away then adding even using a full header. Ask anybody who knows WTH there are doing.

I have put back 12 degrees in spots where the OEM pulls it out. Ive taken away 30 degrees where it was just ridiculous at low TPS positions. What did it do? It now pulls hard in any gear and any throttle position. That snatchy throttle? COMPLETELY ELIMINATED. I no longer use the clutch to shift. This bike will never pull like my 190RWHP SAE Vmax, but this bike is really fun in the WV twisties. I haven't touched the fuel yet. To hot out to mount the equipment. NO need for an exhaust. Its fast enough. And I know I need to pull fuel away up top...
 
#11 · (Edited)
the TRE? That's the Timing Retard Eliminator! This is were the OEM kills power usually in the first 3 gears.
So, the above got me thinking. I am bored, due to quarantining, so maybe that is why? Anyway, I have the Woolich. You can take the information out of tables, copy, then save into a spreadsheet. In the spreadsheet, different tables can be compared to each other.
The Woolich has 3 timing maps. The timing maps are for gears 4-6, gear 3, and gears 1-2. They are based on throttle position vs. RPM. The above quote raised the question, what is the difference in the GSXS? To answer, I did a comparison. The comparison is in a spreadsheet. I did mine in OpenOffice then saved as a *.xls file. If you are familiar with spreadsheets you should understand. The comparison is based on gears 4-6 as the baseline. The difference between the baseline and gears 3 and the difference between the baseline and gears 1-2 was performed. The largest difference is mostly at low (<10%) throttle openings and midrange (2000-7000) RPM in the lower gears. Positive numbers are green (gears 4-6 higher timing) and negative numbers red (timing 1-2 higher). Zero means no difference.
The screenshot below shows the largest comparison difference. Lots of zeroes. When do you hit 3200 RPM at 1.2% throttle? Or, taking another cell, 14% throttle at 2800 RPM? Respectfully, I am not convinced that what @9SecVmax says is completely true with regard to the timing being killed in the GSXS. To a certain extent it is. Just looks like not the extent 9SecVmax says? To those interested in the details, I included the .xls file as an PDF attachment. (You will have to PM me for the actual spreadsheet, as I cannot attach an xls or odf file here). Feel free to review and comment. Thanks!
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