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Thread: A possible problem with throttle sensors 13580-29G00 and 13605-02F00 Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-30-2019 07:28 PM
Supercharger Most places don't allow refunds on electronic parts, so if possible test the part on the bike first. Buying a bunch of factory parts you can't return will be a very costly way to troubleshoot. Being you said the trouble started after the dealer serviced your bike....it kinda sounds like a possible loose connection somewhere, especially if its worse on rough road as you stated. What exactly did the dealer do?
10-30-2019 04:49 PM
frog4aday
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesK View Post
Frog4aday and Rob, thanks for the great suggestions.
@frog4aday, since you brought up the Crankshaft position sensor could you pls point me to likely place on the engine it might be found on this bike/engine?<SNIPPED STUFF>
This sensor is located near the starter where it can 'read' the teeth on the fly wheel. Suzuki calls it a "Signal Generator" (because why call it what it is...?) The part # is:
STARTER SIGNAL GENERATOR
33110-35F00
$180.26 (USA dollars)

See attached pics to get general location, an idea of what one looks like, and to see the microfiche diagram/part #.
10-30-2019 03:38 PM
Rusty [QUOTE=JamesK;396652]Frog4aday and Rob, thanks for the great suggestions.

@frog4aday , since you brought up the Crankshaft position sensor could you pls point me to likely place on the engine it might be found on this bike/engine?


Its on the right side under the starter clutch. You will need the shop manual and maybe a special tool and some wrenching skills to get to it.
10-30-2019 06:41 AM
JamesK Frog4aday and Rob, thanks for the great suggestions.

@frog4aday , since you brought up the Crankshaft position sensor could you pls point me to likely place on the engine it might be found on this bike/engine?


I'm also having trouble trying to find it on the parts fiche.
https://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oem...sx-s1000-parts


@Rob , we plan to stick some heat-shield material to the underside of the gas tank just in case it helps with heat management on the really hot days and/or crawling through traffic.
10-29-2019 06:31 AM
Slower and Slower Hot days and long rides ? That suggests to me that the tank is getting closer to empty than full when this happen's. The issue: Cut's out and coughing and spluttering, not much engine power. (From Post 1).
When Jo turn's the kill switch off and back on, it works OK for while.

When you turn on the ign switch, you hear the fuel pump pressuring the line to the throttle body injector's. Same happens via the kill switch when the line pressure would be low to nil.
The pump motor runs hotter in prolonged use and a minimum of 1 Litre of fuel is needed after it has reached indicated empty to maintain pump cooling in normal ambient temperatures.
Hot dry air is not normal ambient either.

So on prolonged really hot weather rides, with the fuel low in the tank, the reflected engine heat could be affecting the pump itself or vapourising the fuel in the lines to the injector's (the coughing/spluttering).
If it's got that bad, the ECU (in a GSX-S1000) would be very hot. That sensor 13580 - 14J00 is not from that bike, so what IS the bike were talking about here?

You can never prove vapouring is happening once after the bike got cooler, say in a workshop or the bike has had a chance to cool down a bit.

Rob.
10-28-2019 10:34 PM
Jo Sorensen Thanks for all your input guys. I did order the .SENSOR ASSY 13580-14J00 throttle position sensor so will obviously start with that and a good look at everything else that can be see or jiggled when the tank is off etc. It certainly seems to fail more when it is hot so all other suggestions will be considered by my partner for sure.

I wonder what other bikes share this same sensor? I keep being told the engine is based on the gsxr I wonder if they have issues like this too?
10-26-2019 12:14 PM
frog4aday I said CRANKSHAFT position sensor. Not camshaft. Some engines have both (hence the "excerpt" above referencing a CRANKSHAFT-camshaft sensor. Our bikes only have the one. All the symptoms still apply to bikes with just the CRANKSHAFT sensor.) Not sure what your point is. Are you trying to help? The crankshaft position sensor is notoriously the culprit when it is a HOT bike issue of a random nature such as misfire, loss of power, etc. and the shop can never find a problem. It is nearly impossible to duplicate in a static environment.



I'm trying to help the guy out. The most likely issue, based on the symptoms and obvious potential causes being ruled out, is the CRANKSHAFT position sensor. (And for bikes with both, the camshaft position sensor should be considered, too, for those that run other machines besides the GSX-S.)
10-25-2019 12:54 PM
fieromx3 except are bikes don't use a cam sensor, just an AP sensor. the k5 engine uses a cam sensor located on the valve cover, on the gsxs you will see its blocked off
10-24-2019 04:37 PM
frog4aday This problem (OP) sounds like a crankshaft position sensor going bad. (Could be a camshaft position sensor, too, but the CRANKSHAFT one is almost always the real problem.) They are fine until they get really hot, then they start malfunctioning because the heat causes them to expand and short out, then work again, then short out, and so it goes. They are the devil to diagnose and fix because they have to be really hot to 'induce' the problem. Best "fix" is to just replace it as 'testing' it won't reveal the problem (can't get it hot enough just in a shop to 'induce' the problem.)



Here's a quick excerpt:
A Crankshaft-Camshaft Position Sensor that is starting to go bad (but isn't totally 'fried' yet) can produce a confusing range of problems, to include:
  • Engine jerking and losing power
  • Loss of engine power; for example, no acceleration above 35 mph
  • Stalling
  • Irregular acceleration
  • Misfiring
  • Hard starting
  • Surging
Another thing that can make testing the Crankshaft-Camshaft Position Sensor seem intimidating is the fact that every make and model uses a different type of Position Sensor.
Function

The functional objective for the crankshaft position sensor is to determine the position and/or rotational speed (RPM) of the crank. Engine Control Units (ECUs) use the information transmitted by the sensor to control parameters such as ignition timing and fuel injection timing. The sensor output may also be related to other sensor data including the cam position to derive the current combustion cycle, this is very important for the starting of a four stroke engine.



Sometimes, the sensor may become burnt or worn out - or just die of old age at high mileage. One likely cause of crankshaft position sensor failure is exposure to extreme heat. Others are vibration causing a wire to fracture or corrosion on the pins of harness connectors.
10-23-2019 09:17 PM
Gsxsfan I’m assuming you’ve already run the bike under some amount of throttle (at a standstill) with tank up and wiggled all the wires to Ecu plugs and sensors to see if it does anything? If you suspect heat issue with tps, again with tank up, heat it with something (hair dryer, heat gun on low setting). It’s on the side of the engine so it’s pretty easy to get to. Just don’t MELT it! Could do the same with ecu but since ecu is on top of airbox and somewhat isolated from engine heat I’d doubt its a heat issue with it, but you never know.
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