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Down on power, falls on face at 5K RPMs

17K views 29 replies 12 participants last post by  BlueTorch 
#1 ·
Hey everyone. I've got a 2016 GSX-S1000 with 3500 miles on it. I installed a Power Commander V when the bike had 120 miles. All stock otherwise besides cosmetics. Last year the bike ran great, but this year it seems to be having problems. It does not have the power a 1000 should. I thought I was just getting used to the power after years on an R6, but thats not the case. The bike doesn't pull like it should. I have also noticed that there has been a seemingly increasing flat spot around 5K RPMs. I know these bikes have a flat spot there anyway, but today the bike was actually stuttering at that RPM, almost like the feeling of traction control kicking in. Once you get through the stuttering around 5K, it comes out of it a little and stops stuttering, but still doesn't accelerate like a 1000 should. The problem seems to be at full throttle settings.

There are a few things I think it could be that I want to check...

1) Disconnect the Power Commander to see if that is acting up
2) Check airbox for rodent obstruction
3) Bad gas
4) I adjusted the primary TPS sensor before the season started, maybe something went wrong with this procedure? Pre-adjustment voltages were 1.01/3.96 closed/open throttle. After adjustment, the voltages are 1.12/4.10. Is the open throttle voltage ok? Seems low? I think spec is 4.5v? After the adjustment I can't adjust the traction control settings with the bike running, which other people have mentioned as well.

My R6 acted similar to this when it had a bad coil, but it also would almost stall at idle, where this bike seems to be idling fine.

Any other thoughts?
 
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#2 ·
Hey everyone. I've got a 2016 GSX-S1000 with 3500 miles on it. I installed a Power Commander V when the bike had 120 miles. All stock otherwise besides cosmetics. Last year the bike ran great, but this year it seems to be having problems. It does not have the power a 1000 should. I thought I was just getting used to the power after years on an R6, but thats not the case. The bike doesn't pull like it should. I have also noticed that there has been a seemingly increasing flat spot around 5K RPMs. I know these bikes have a flat spot there anyway, but today the bike was actually stuttering at that RPM, almost like the feeling of traction control kicking in. Once you get through the stuttering around 5K, it comes out of it a little and stops stuttering, but still doesn't accelerate like a 1000 should. The problem seems to be at full throttle settings.

There are a few things I think it could be that I want to check...

1) Disconnect the Power Commander to see if that is acting up
2) Check airbox for rodent obstruction
3) Bad gas
4) I adjusted the primary TPS sensor before the season started, maybe something went wrong with this procedure? Pre-adjustment voltages were 1.01/3.96 closed/open throttle. After adjustment, the voltages are 1.12/4.10. Is the open throttle voltage ok? Seems low? I think spec is 4.5v? After the adjustment I can't adjust the traction control settings with the bike running, which other people have mentioned as well.

My R6 acted similar to this when it had a bad coil, but it also would almost stall at idle, where this bike seems to be idling fine.

Any other thoughts?
I'm not sure about the TPS voltage, I've never checked mine, but those first 3 items in your list seem like a good place to start.

Good luck.
 
#4 · (Edited)
How would I do that exactly? There is no power button obviously, but if I disconnect power going to it, the power commander plugs are still inline between the factory injector plugs, will that be a problem?

If I leave the power commander in place but just disconnect all of the connectors and plug the factory connectors back into each other, it should only take half an hour to accomplish that.
 
#6 ·
Don't think it will help with your problem but. -

After resetting the TPS did you reset the throttle fully closed learned position using the PCV software.
You could always load a zero map to check the PCV effect.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I reset the TPS voltage before the season started so I hadn't ridden the bike for about six months, so it was hard to notice the power loss. Now I realize it is definitely down on power and has a big flat spot around 5K. It was only this morning that it started to actually stutter at 5K during acceleration.

I haven't reset the full closed TPS setting with the PCV software. I don't move the TC setting ever and I change it with the ignition on but the engine off, so it hasn't bothered me. I think the WOT TPS voltage is supposed to be 4.5, mine is 4.1 but I don't think that is the problem since it ripped last year with a value of 3.96
 
#9 ·
Thanks. I could load a zero map on the PCV, but it will be good to disconnect and re-seat the connectors anyway to rule that out.

I will start digging into it a little tonight when I get home from work.

I will check the airbox first though. Funny thing- I put my stock muffler back on this spring to go get an inspection, and when I started the bike, pink insulation (and a lot of it) shot out. So obviously there were some critters living near the bike and brought the insulation into the muffler (which was sitting on a shelf above the bike all winter).
 
#10 ·
I found a bird nest in my airbox that covered about 40% of my filter. Did not cause any of the issues you are experiencing. The stuttering is either fuel or ignition. Disconnect the PCV, if that doesn't work I would drain your fuel and put some fresh premium fuel in with a little injector cleaner.
 
#12 ·
Alright so airbox is perfectly clean.

I adjusted my TPS settings back to what they were previously.

Ponder this though- I forgot when I installed the PCV that it puts a connector inline with the primary TPS sensor. I was reading the voltages between the factory primary TPS harness connector and the PCV harness. I think I still got the correct readings because turning the TPS sensor changed the voltages. I read somewhere that you shouldn't adjust the primary TPS voltages if you have power commander. Not sure why that is, but could that have been my problem? Anyone else adjust their primary TPS voltages with a power commander installed?

So current status-
- double checked all of the power commander connections
- verified airbox is clean and not obstructed
- moved primary TPS voltages back to factory settings

I will ride the bike to work tomorrow to see if anything has changed.
 
#15 ·
Thanks guys.

Rode the bike to work this morning and nothing has changed, its still really sluggish. I remember last year in 6th gear at 50MPH, if you cracked the throttle it felt like the front wheel was going to come off the ground. Its nothing like that this year!

Going back to the factory TPS settings, you can really feel how much more jerky the bike is. Setting it correctly really smoothed it out!

My next steps will be to put a little Sea Foam in with a fresh tank of gas. I will disconnect the power commander entirely and then set the TPS voltages with the bike stock. Then I will ride it for a little while to see how that feels. If it still feels down on power after that, I will reinstall the power commander. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else to try. Any other suggestions?

Does the Power Commander V have learning capabilities? In other words, does it modify the factory power commander map as you ride (or if you change the TPS voltage)? Should I reload the fresh factory power commander map onto it?
 
#16 · (Edited)
Where is the gear position switch on our bike?

I read this thread about a 2007 GSXR-1000 that had very similar symptoms and it was something with the gear position switch, although there is no resolution in the thread.

K7 gsxr 1000 power loss/stuttering around 5000 rpm - GSXR.com

One other question- when I had the airbox cover off, I twisted the throttle and the butterfly plates in the throttle bodies didn't move. I found this to be kind of strange. They are cable operated so shouldn't they move with the throttle? Maybe this is a dumb question.
 
#17 ·
One other question- when I had the airbox cover off, I twisted the throttle and the butterfly plates in the throttle bodies didn't move. I found this to be kind of strange. They are cable operated so shouldn't they move with the throttle? Maybe this is a dumb question.
You could be looking at the secondaries, those are computer controlled. Try it with the key on and see what happens.
 
#22 ·
This problem is now resolved.

With the TPS voltage set back to factory settings, I disconnected the Power Commander and the bikes power was back and the flat spot was gone.

So then with the Power Commander still disconnected, I checked the Primary TPS voltage again, and it was 1.07/4.39. When I checked it before, I had totally forgotten that part of the Power Commander install includes a lead inline with the primary TPS. So I was checking the voltages previously through Power Commander leads. The voltage at factory settings but checking through the Power Commander leads was 1.01/3.96 vs the 1.07/4.39 when checking with the factory leads. So the Power Commander was giving me incorrect readings when I was measuring the primary TPS voltage with the Power Commander installed. In reality I had set the primary TPS voltage ABOVE factory spec with out knowing it.

Next, with the power commander still disconnected, I set the TPS voltage to 1.13/4.43. I then sent a fresh copy of the stock Power Commander map to the unit, reconnected it and everything is great now.

Moral of the story- if you have a power commander, disconnect it before adjusting your primary TPS voltage.

Side note- Back-to-back 25 miles rides with the primary TPS sensor at factory (incorrect) voltage and no power commander vs primary TPS sensor set correctly and power commander installed is a night and day difference as far as throttle smoothness.
 
#23 ·
Good info.

I have a noticeable and annoying flat spot between 4-6,000 rpm and would rather not install a power commander. I do have a full M4 exhaust system on the bike but Martin Bros insist that a tune is not necessary with this particular pipes.

My TPS indicates low but I haven't gotten around to adjusting it yet. Someone here said that would not fix the flat spot anyway.

What to do?
 
#24 ·
I would flash it, the stock bikes all have a big flatspot around 5000rpm - Its natural to have a dip at half of max power plus the manufacturers deliberately tune bikes to be quiet at half of max power as that is where some noise tests are done.

Look at this page you can see all the GSXS dyno charts except the top two have huge flat spots - the top two have tuned exhausts

The M4 exhaust looks pretty good, with longer secondaries than any other off the shelf exhaust, but their webpage is full of bullshit, as it says max power is at 11,500 rpm (over the rev limit) so I wouldn't believe them when it says it doesn't need a remap

IMHO If the standard bike has a huge dip in torque and the mapping is roughly correct then any bike that has an exhaust tuned to not have that dip would need a remap to increase the fueling in that area
 
#27 ·
Paul, thanks for that great information. Sure is a lot of time and expense to go through to rid myself of the pesky flat spot but it might come to that. Perhaps the answer in the shirt term is to just keep it above 6,000 rpm! :laugh:
 
#30 ·
Have the same issues on my 2018. They tried a lot of things. They noticed it has the wrong battery from the dealership. I bought new old stock and it’s still under warranty. I noticed it may be a battery issue. If I turn of the high beams and let it cool off it will go back to normal without any codes. I personally think it’s a battery or wire issue. Mine is bone stock and I notice when it acts up it will run at 8000 rpm max then go down to 5000 after awhile. Let me know if you got it figured out. The pike as always ran rich so
Maybe a remap or something like that. It’s frustrating to say the least. I run my 2019 750 extremely hard and never had one issue.
 
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