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Snatchy Throttle Issue Fixed

89K views 249 replies 42 participants last post by  PubbieMcLemming 
#1 ·
I experienced some issues with the throttle as most owners have done,:( however I've not reflashed the ECU as yet but took a bit of time to check and set up the Throttle position sensor and adjust the throttle cables properly at the lower end (Throttle Body End). It has made a huge difference to the riding experience at small throttle openings in towns and in traffic, so much smoother now.:)
 
#3 ·
My TPS is off for sure, but I haven't taken her apart yet to make the adjustment. It's been too hot in my garage. Ok, actually I've been lazy and I need to order the wire harness thingy tool. I'll get to it soon. I'm curious to see if it cures that dang flat spot between 4000-6000 rpm.
 
#4 · (Edited)
It won't cure the flat spot - all 4 stroke high performance engines have a flat spot at half of peak power revs (10,500 rpm Peak Power, 5,250 rpm flat spot), often made worse by the manufacturer exhaust design to keep noise down around 5000 rpm (where a lot of noise testing is done) - The exhaust valve helps this by closing more around 5000rpm at higher throttle openings

The only way to cure the flat spot completely is with a new exhaust designed to enhance the torque around 5000rpm overcoming the engines natural flatspot, this means losing the exhaust valve (or tuning it in the reflash) and designing the length and diameter of primaries/secondaries to boost the torque in this area

This is one of the more dramatic dyno curves I have seen showing the flat spot (not really a flat spot, more of a huge hole)

 
#6 ·
Oh Paul,
It simply is NOT true that there is a hole.
How to do I know?

When the Yamaha R1 first came out back when (1998), an interview in a magazine with the Head Designer said 'Yamaha did this dip deliberately for the "Riders pleasure"'. This is my memory from that time:

"As the R1 would be greeted with enthusiastic desire from a wide cross section of Motorcyclists, the less experienced would enjoy the first rise up the graph then know that the power will deliberately go down and be then know the safe band of revs to ride in".
The more experienced Riders would be able to enjoy a greater second surge from 5000 to the red line".

Done with clever engineering in mind for all Riders to enjoy their new R1 experience

What a load of crock indeed, said with a straight face presumably.

Rob.
 
#167 · (Edited)
out standing video. Thanks so much for taking the time to do that. Not only was extremely helpful it was an extremely good video. So many are full of wasted audio and video that often cannot be seen. Well done. I have adjusted the TPS but not with the volt meter. Maybe it will help. It is a lot cheaper than a live dyno tune or the Woolich software.

Ouch, I just check the price on that part at partzilla and it is $51 dollars. that is about $1 worth of material there if you know what clips to buy
 
#8 ·
I've read a lot about the TPS adjustment so conceptionally I'm comfortable with that. I do have 1 question though. What does Suzuki say in their manuals for the recommended TPS setting? Would they say _C00 or -C00? The reason I ask is that I've yet to take delivery of my bike and I could ask them to inspect and adjust the TPS setting to -C00 but they may reply that _C00 is the recommended setting. All in all not a big deal either way, just wondering.

Peter
 
#9 ·
If yours is an 18 model, it won't have the - just C00. Mine is an 18 model year, and the throttle snatch wasn't an issue. I checked the tps Voltagw and was way under the recommended range of 1.10-1.14, at 1.06. PhuketPaul says the best seems to be at 1.13, which i believe him. I set mine to 1.13 but it changed to 1.11V when tightening it back up. Either way, when the snatch wasn't an issue before (I did it just for peace of mind) it's still so much smoother.

To do it that way you'd need a Suzuki or Kawasaki breakout lead. But it's worth riding the bike first to see how she is, if you feel you need it.
 
G
#14 ·
I just had my first service, and mentioned to the service team, they adjusted the TPS (Saying it way out) and upped the idle a little, and she feels like a new bike.
They apparently rang Suzuki Head Office to get the the TPS values, I am assuming they are not the "standard" settings when the bike is put together.
 
#18 ·
There are many discussions/posts regarding the throttle issues. I recently bought a 2018. I have owned over 20 motorcycles and some with pretty crappy fueling. I, like some others, new what I was getting into with this bike. I figured I might have to make some adjustments to the throttle but the amount of bike you get for around $9000 is pretty amazing. The 2018 is certainly ride-able and enjoyable just like it is. However, as one other poster said, "it is on a knifes edge between let's go and injectors off". Thought that was pretty funny. So lets just say I really like the bike but the throttle is sensitive and it would be nice to have a smoother off to on throttle transition and I would like less decel when you roll off the throttle. Anyway, I have been reading the posts over and over again and man you really get so many different recommendations/solutions that it is kind of confusing. Here is what I have compiled so far in no certain order.
Power Commander
Power Commander with auto-tune
TPS adjustment
ECU reflash
Throttle Tamer
Throttle cable adjustment
Woolich racing kit
.....and there are probably others.
I don't need or want any more power. The bike is a bullet in stock form. What I would like is a smoother OFF to ON throttle transition, less sensitive throttle, and less decel when rolling off throttle. I don't plan to install a full exhausts or even a slip on. I actually like the little stubby stock exhaust. Can someone give me some advice on what I need to do based on what I want? Thanks
 
#19 ·
<SNIPPED STUFF> What I would like is a smoother OFF to ON throttle transition, less sensitive throttle, and less decel when rolling off throttle. I don't plan to install a full exhausts or even a slip on. I actually like the little stubby stock exhaust. Can someone give me some advice on what I need to do based on what I want? Thanks
Tom, pull the ECU. Send it to Danos in California. Pay $180. Reinstall ECU. Ride and enjoy. Seriously. That's it. Oh yeah, if you have a ton of slack in your throttle cables (mine was bad) adjust all but a millimeter of slack out and it makes it so much better. Good riding to you!
 
#22 ·
Thanks for the quick replies and good information. Without actually saying it I was and still am leaning toward having Danos re-flash the ECU as FreedomPenguin and frog4aday are pretty adamant and convinced that does the trick.

One question: Danos site shows "Disable deceleration fuel cut" as one of their features. For those of you that have had Danos re-flash the ECU how does the bike feel upon deceleration now?

 
#23 ·
smoothly slows down, doesn't push you onto handle bars upon letting off the throttle. same can be said, when you give it hard throttle, and let go you aren't thrown back and fourth. small and big corrections are more fluent I guess, and its not just him and I, theres like 10 people on here now who also got flashed with us.

If you are doing a mail in flash, he's the best option imo at the moment, as others who used ftecu etc had minor gripes or didn't have fuel cut or had strong power, but wasn't linear/smooth for street riding.

im perfectly content, and as mentioned. 180 bucks. I just spent 175 dollars on a brace for a mustang that does absolutely nothing Lol. but seriously, just do it if its something you're on edge about. you wont need a power commander, throttle tamer, none of that other stuff.

Just saves effort too. took me 10 minutes to take apart, install, reinstall, bam. easiest thing ever. you may need to block off your pair valve, but that takes 30 seconds with a marble or whatever you want to use.
 
#24 ·
Wow sounds really good.
How does it effect the fuel mileage/usage on the gsx-s? I can't belive I can go 160 or 170 miles before the gauge starts blinking. It is nice to be able to do that but I would be willing to give up 10% of my fuel mileage/range in order to have a really smooth throttle.

Funny about spending $175 on the brace for the Mustang. I know what you mean. Happens all the time where you spend money and your like, why did I do that???
 
#25 · (Edited)
I don’t know, I flashed mine at 6 miles on odometer, no regrets. He will leave o2 sensor on in the flash for cruising you’ll get best mpg. But I do wheelies etc on highway stupid hooligan stuff so I prob don’t get the best mpg. But cruising, I fill up like any other bike I guess. Never really paid much mind when it’s 10 dollars once a month.

I did read something though among flash people; not sure if it’s other flashes or certain flashes or whoever. But some people with flashes mentioned their odometer mpg thing showing off mileage

Like, they are getting more mpgs than the little reading is showing. Not sure how to explain it as I’ve never paid attention, and I don’t know which brands they used to flash.

I feel like I get good mpgs though.
 
#165 ·
FP - I had my ECU flashed by Dano's several weeks ago. The bike is much much better but I am having an issue (or still having the issue) with the bike "hunting" while at constant throttle at small throttle openings like when riding in traffic or going thru small towns with low speed limits. The bike will do the jitter bug with the tach jumping up and down. Very annoying. Anyway, I contacted Danos and ask him about it. He said to plug the pair valve and report back to him with the results. I have not done that yet but I plan to. Is your pair valve plugged? Are you experiencing this issue?

thanks
tg
 
#29 ·
Hi Tom,
I think that these bikes use an algorithm in the ECU to simulate fuel usage. That would be based on fuel float position, revs and gears, and odometer.
As the flash changes the volume and timing of fuel injection pulses, the MPG won't then match the expectation of the standard algorithm in one way or the other direction.

You would need to find the Flasher's FI map table and compare that to the Standard table to see the differences in the fueling.
Different fueling tables have been posted here a few back in the dim past when Members were keener then on the PC5 route.
The Power Commander unit is portable to another bike, probably dearer than flashing, and has not been the cure wanted for, as a few have reported back and then gone the flashing direction.

My readings of posts on the 'jerky throttle issue' is that fuel cut deletion is the main thing to look for. No one unfortunately has said that they just had this done and left the fueling alone, as it's timely to fix the emissions while in there.
It would be interesting to see what the result would be with deletion of the FI fuel cut alone.

I asked my Dealers head mechanic once seeing that they had the Woollich software, could they as a 2 minute job just untick the fuel deletion, leave everything else alone, and save it.
The response was a shrug of the shoulders and a vacant look. I personally can't see why not.

Rob.
 
#30 ·
He's probably right below, it must be using the estimated fueling in algorithm to determine miles left to empty or whatever, but my fuel gauge works perfectly fine. It may say I am empty in 20 miles, when in fact I have 2/3 tank left? just throwing random idea out.

Either way, if a flash causes a slight offset of estimated range in the ecu or whatever is happening, its worth it for trade off of wonderful riding, comfortable, and gas gauge works. Its not like its telling you you are empty when you have a full tank because its not doing that to me, I fill up when it says im low and I do just that.

This summer I will do a few miles of testing and try and figure out if this is something I can relate too or if it doesn't effect me. I couldn't tell ya at the moment as I never looked for it.
 
#31 ·
Tom,
Flash and fueling:
The "Disable deceleration fuel cut" feature done during the Danos flash is good! The OEM ECU programming cuts the fuel when you go totally off throttle to reduce emissions, which is great and all, but when you go to get back on throttle, there is nothing 'feeding' the engine and it takes a fraction of a second for the fuel you are now asking for to get to the cylinder and, while that delay is small, you are rolling on and getting nothing so you are rolling on more and by the time the cylinder is finally getting the fuel you asked for too much has shown up and that gives you that 'jerk' of acceleration which is so irritating (not smooth!) With the Dano flash this is fixed.


Fuel economy pre-flash vs. post-flash - this is going to vary a bit depending on the person, riding style, amount & type of throttle usage. Believe it or not, on my Super Tenere, I got BETTER fuel mileage after having the ECU flashed (only 1 mpg on average...but definitely NOT worse.) With the GSX-S1000 some are reporting they are getting the same fuel economy but the on-board "Fuel to Empty" calculation is telling them they are going to run out of fuel sooner than before. But...they don't. So I'm not sure what the story is there. Frankly, I'm still getting used to the bike telling me how many miles it "thinks" it will go, only to find out that when I fill it up that there is far more miles worth of fuel still in it, so that feature is more of a nuisance to me. I'd rather have no info than bad info. The ODOMETER is still your best 'fuel gauge', IMO.
 
#32 ·
To remove the snatchy throttle I would strongly recommend in the following order

First: TPS adjustment
Second: Woolich Flash

Those that have had a flash and not checked TPS but have a smooth bike I would assume that their TPS was correct in the first place

There is nothing you can do in a flash that can correct for an incorrectly position Throttle Sensor, but the bike has very lean fuelling at low speed/low throttle that is fixed in a flash

People talk about the snatchy throttle as being 2 different things

First: Very on off throttle through town or when riding slowly, this is nothing to do with the fuel cut as the fuel cut only operates above 4000rpm and below that speed the stock bike fuels continuously, the way to cure this is to ensure TPS is correct and fuelling is good in the IAP map area

Second: Riding fast, coming into corners fast with a trailing throttle and high rpm, this is where the fuel cut makes the bike snatchy, the first squirt or two of gas does not combust properly (condenses on the side of the intake, cylinder etc) causing the power to come on suddenly and jerky.

Fuel Consumption

I have flashed and gone back to standard many times on my ECU and flashed quite a few others. The effect on the gauge fuel consumption seems almost random (i.e. We haven't been able to work out whats causing it yet).

On my bike (ridden pretty hard) I used to get about 240 km to a tank, I now get about 220km from a full tank

However when I fill up my fuel gauge will never show a range of more than 150km (90 miles) and the fuel consumption figure will show about 10km/L (29mpg) but I actually get about 220km (140 miles) and 15km/l (45mpg). This is consistent and the real consumption/range is always 50% better than shown.

Obviously as the tank empties the range to empty becomes more accurate (eg. with 1 litre left it shows 10Km instead of 15km)

Some bikes don't have this error and I have yet to prove it but I think bikes with the newer ECU (2017/18) still show accurate consumption and range
 
#33 ·
Sorry I just got back on my computer and am trying to catch up. Really good information.

I tend to agree with Slow&Slower on how the range is estimated but like FP says the gauge is correct. Of course the gauge is like most automobile gauges and goes forever before dropping a single bar and then drops remaining bars quickly.

So FP and frog say Danos re-flash and then possibly TPS adjustment if needed.
PhuketP says TPS adjustment then woolich reflash

Similar but different methods to reach the same goal. Biggest difference is Danos is much cheaper than woolich and I want someone else that knows what they are doing to make any adjustments for me.

Very good description(s) of the two different issues. #1 - when riding at slow speeds with small throttle openings , and #2 - when riding at higher speeds and rolling OFF and back ON the throttle.

Thanks for all your help. Good stuff
 
#34 ·
So FP and frog say Danos re-flash and then possibly TPS adjustment if needed.
PhuketP says TPS adjustment then woolich reflash

Similar but different methods to reach the same goal.
Doesn't matter what order you do it in, its just logical to fix things before modifying them - and if the TPS is out it needs fixing


Biggest difference is Danos is much cheaper than woolich and I want someone else that knows what they are doing to make any adjustments for me.
Danos uses Woolich, so not quite sure what you mean!
 
#38 ·
I am coming off a 2017 Kawasaki Z900 and the fuel gauge was pretty accurate. The gsx-s and the Z900 have the same size fuel tank (4.5 gal). I would typically go about 150 miles before the fuel warning light would come on on the Z900. I have gone 160 miles on the gsx-s and the light has not come on yet. I expect it to come on soon. Being able to go 150 miles before needing fuel is a nice luxury. My friend had an FZ09 and he couldn't hardly get out of the parking lot before he was low on fuel. Throttle was very jerky too. He hated that.
 
#39 ·
Below is a listing of what features can be programmed into the ECU by Danos. Based on what my needs are what features should I have programmed?
Remember, I am not interested in more power, only smooth throttle, less snatch, and less decel upon throttle roll off.
Let me know what you think. thanks

Optimize fuel curves across all gears (similar to a Power Commander) -- YES
Optimize ignition curves across all gears (Remove gear based ignition timing restrictions) -- YES
Remove secondary throttle plate restrictions -- ?
Reset radiator fan turn on/off (205/195) -- ?
Remove top speed limiter -- ?
Disable pair valve -- ?
Disable exhaust valve -- ?
Disable deceleration fuel cut -- YES
Disable O2 sensor -- ?


 
#41 ·
Below is a listing of what features can be programmed into the ECU by Danos. Based on what my needs are what features should I have programmed?
Remember, I am not interested in more power, only smooth throttle, less snatch, and less decel upon throttle roll off.
Let me know what you think. thanks
Optimize fuel curves across all gears (similar to a Power Commander) -- YES
Definitely
Optimize ignition curves across all gears (Remove gear based ignition timing restrictions) -- YES
Definitely
Remove secondary throttle plate restrictions -- ?
Yes, will increase torque and responsiveness - no downside unless you don't like a quick bike
Reset radiator fan turn on/off (205/195) -- ?
Yes, keeps engine cooler - good for the life of the engine
Remove top speed limiter -- ?
Why the **** not - again no downside unless you don't trust your self restraint
Disable pair valve -- ?
If you are keeping the Cat, then No, if you are decatted then only if you don't like bangs and pops on the overun, this doesn't stop the pair valve working, just disables the error
Disable exhaust valve -- ?
Yes, the exhaust valve does some very strange things to keep noise down for certain tests, restrictive
Disable deceleration fuel cut -- YES
Definitely but will make fuel consumption slightly worse
Disable O2 sensor -- ?
Up to you, if you disable you will get smoother cruising but slightly worse fuel consumption, again this just turns the error off - you would need to unplug the 02 sensor to actually disable it


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