Error with dealer switch: C65 - Suzuki GSXS1000 Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 04-23-2019, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Error with dealer switch: C65

Hi All,


I am on my second GSX-S1000FAL6. This second hand one has had several faults, the latest happened last week and I have just started to calm down enough to strip it down (again) and investigate the latest fault. The bike is June 2016 and has just over 4,000 miles on it.


The FI and Engine Management Light came on; using the dealer switch, you get C65. Checking the manual you get:


P0507 (C65): ISC Valve, Higher Than Desired RPM


Any one seen this before? The bike ran like a dog at low/idle RPM, however as I was only 3 miles from home, I turned around and went back. Of course now it is fine and I have started it several times, but the EML doesn't come on. Reading the manual, it would seem to be an issue with the Idle Speed Control valve which is very expensive in the UK (230) and is a right pain to get at under the airbox on the throttle bodies.


The manual also says that you can reset the valve stored value in the ECU if you have a copy of SDS - which surprisingly enough, I don't....Sounds like the ECU is screwed up, however not sure how to proceed as the nearest Suzuki dealer is nearly 10 miles away and I don't want to break down again trying to get there. Spent an afternoon last week waiting for a flatbed at the side of the road



Thanks for any insight any of you may be able to provide! Anyone in Wiltshire in the UK got a copy of SDS??



Best regards,


David
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post #2 of 10 Old 04-23-2019, 05:48 PM
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The only SDS I know of is an electronic diagnostic tool used to to set various engine parameters.
Like this one that I have.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-He...8AAOSwObhaZgVB

Blue Naked 2015 ABS model. PCV, Nitron Ntr-1 shock, MRA screen(modified) Puig crash bungs, HEL lines and EBC-HH pads, job done. (Riding since 1959.)
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post #3 of 10 Old 04-23-2019, 06:53 PM
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Healtech makes the OBD (On Board Diagnostic) Tool, which is much less expensive than the Suzuki SDS. $229.99 US and 149,00 EUR.

It does pretty much all the same diagnostics,clears DTC's and allows for learned value reset of ISC and TPS, etc.

I have it and it works on both my GSX and my Bandit.


https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/obd/
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post #4 of 10 Old 04-23-2019, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by David-GSXS-FA View Post
Hi All,


I am on my second GSX-S1000FAL6. This second hand one has had several faults, the latest happened last week and I have just started to calm down enough to strip it down (again) and investigate the latest fault. The bike is June 2016 and has just over 4,000 miles on it.


The FI and Engine Management Light came on; using the dealer switch, you get C65. Checking the manual you get:


P0507 (C65): ISC Valve, Higher Than Desired RPM


Any one seen this before? The bike ran like a dog at low/idle RPM, however as I was only 3 miles from home, I turned around and went back. Of course now it is fine and I have started it several times, but the EML doesn't come on. Reading the manual, it would seem to be an issue with the Idle Speed Control valve which is very expensive in the UK (230) and is a right pain to get at under the airbox on the throttle bodies.


The manual also says that you can reset the valve stored value in the ECU if you have a copy of SDS - which surprisingly enough, I don't....Sounds like the ECU is screwed up, however not sure how to proceed as the nearest Suzuki dealer is nearly 10 miles away and I don't want to break down again trying to get there. Spent an afternoon last week waiting for a flatbed at the side of the road



Thanks for any insight any of you may be able to provide! Anyone in Wiltshire in the UK got a copy of SDS??



Best regards,


David
Hi David,
C65 code on PhuketPaul's site has the opposite of 'higher'. It said that the idle speed is below the Suzuki range, which from memory is 1000 to 1250 ish. And the tacho on the bike is not that accurate. The SDS tool is obsolete now for newer bikes - software is the replacement tool for several reason's.
Any chance that the Throttle position Sensor (TPS) is out of adjustment range ?
Seeing your got a 2016 bike, perhaps even though the C65 code is replacing the good C00 (no alarms present), when you are in Dealer mode with the C65 up is it up all the time ? Fault codes in Dealer Mode reset back to C00 if it goes away.
Does the - line show at all, like _C65 or -C65 or upper dash line C65 ?
I don't know whether is shows the dash line or not, but gives a basic clue about the TPS setting point, as that has an effect on idle speed if the sensor is mechanically incorrectly positioned on the throttle body.
My guess that resetting a learned value won't fix your problem.

Rob.
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post #5 of 10 Old 04-24-2019, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Rob,
When it failed, it was -C65 which I think is OK; it is right on the point of change from middle to upper mark when hot; i.e. sometimes it is upper then after a second or two idling, it goes back to the middle.

There is no error anymore, so I am somewhat stumped! I am not sure if there is a problem with the ISC valve (Suzuki call it a "Motor Assy" on their parts list) and the fault finding in the manual is almost non existant. So it could be a sticky motor or not.
I believe that the TPS is very close to the correct value as it has clearly been adjusted in the past (the white lines do not quite line up) and it isn't that "jerky" going on-off throttle at slow speed which my first one did big time.
I suppose I will have to check and adjust the idle speed, although I am not sure if the BoosterPlug device is having an effect on the idle once it has warmed up.
I think I will have to just re-assemble and try it again, the trouble is I am now very wary of the bike after the issues I have had with it, so I have lost confidence in it
David
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post #6 of 10 Old 04-25-2019, 03:20 AM
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Hi David,
Here's an old GSX-R Forum post that may be useful, a post from 'Motorhead' a fair way down describes a fault that resulted in a Suzuki recall with 2007 GSX-R1000 which the GSX-S has a relationship too as you know.

https://www.suzuki-forums.net/index....th-my-k7-1000/

QUOTE: " The second is a defective (ISC) Idle Speed Control Valve. Suzuki has determined that all GSX-R1000K7 motorcycles are equipped with an Idle Speed Control (ISC) Valve that may not return to the correct start-up position each time the ignition switch is turned to the off position. Due to improper shape of the internal mechanism that moves the ISC valve, the valve may remain in the open position instead of moving to the
correct start-up position. This can result in no-load engine idle speeds as high as 5000 RPM’s the next time the engine is started. If you choose to operate the motorcycle in this condition, you may have difficulty operating the motorcycle, which could result in a crash.

Suzuki is recalling affected units for the installation of an improved ISC valve and Engine Control Module (ECM). The new ECM contains revised programming which controls the ISC valve functions related to idle speed. The ISC valve related ECM changes have no effect on overall performance of the motorcycle. Repair time is approximately 1 hour and will be done at no cost to you for parts or labor. "

I also saw references to O2 sensor replacements in the same bike that brought up C40 ISC code. Your's is C65, but there's 10 years difference. One Guy reported like you, the alarm just cleared by itself after a few days.

That based on the old post & my past readings online of Suzuki issues, could mean 2 things:
1/ a temporary mechanical stiffness just dislodged itself in the motor assembly actuator. (Older GSX-R750'S used to be prone to solder joints failing due to vibration. It was possible to pull it apart and re-solder . Cheaper than Suzuki spare prices)
2/ Learned Values will fix themselves with feedback from a working correctly sensor to the ECU, but with a lot more time than a few days.

Edit: Your observations of the - line for TPS is correct for a corectly adjusted sensor, so that's all good.
The STVA motorised actuator is a stepper motor that turns the ECU controlled secondary butterfly valves via the throttle body shaft. It is the automatic choke mechanism for the bike.
If it doesn't turn the shaft correctly, stays open, it makes the bike hard to start when cold, or stays closed, closes off the air way through the throttle bodies and strangles the motor. Or someway between the two.
There's quite a few Youtube on a repair on line.

Rob.

Last edited by Slower and Slower; 04-25-2019 at 08:36 PM.
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post #7 of 10 Old 05-04-2019, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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SOLVED!


I decided after much thought and reading online that the only things the fault could be are the ECU or the Idle Speed Control Valve so decided to take the pain of 250 and buy an ISC as the ECU is the price of a second hand car. Until, that is, I found that there wasn't one in the UK or Europe at the major suppliers and the dealers I know and the quoted delivery time as 5-6 weeks. There were some in the US, but they would have been 300+ with import duty. The ISC is used on all the GSX range, the Gladius and a whole range of other bikes, so I have come to the conclusion that this is either a common failure or Suzuki have just updated the part.



In the end I had to buy a second hand ISC as I wanted to get the bike back on the road and after a week, it arrived and I replaced the unit in my bike. Of course this was once I had worked out how to take the airbox and tank off the bike...



The ISC in the bike was not torqued correctly so I suspect that this had been replaced in the past. In fact the old ISC looked like new and much better condition than the second hand ISC I had just bought. However the bike started first touch of the button and ran roughly until nearly warm (about 5 minutes at idle). I turned the ignition off, let it cool and repeated. A much better idle this time, so I decided to reassemble the bike and try again. Yup ran nicely for a third time, so decided today to take it out for a run. 80 miles and no issues or lights on the dash. I can't tell you how excited I got! I can also say that this is only the 3rd run I have managed on this bike since I bought it in March without it breaking down or refusing to start...


Interestingly, the bike now idles at a rock steady 1000 RPM (according to the dash) and runs lovely and smooth now. I suspect that the ISC stored value in the ECU was rubbish, however the 3 static runs allowed the ECU to "learn" a better value. Not only that, however the TPS display setting has changed too! Now this I don't understand


So I think I have established that the TPS and ISC (both providing input/output to the ECU) are all interlinked, clearly by the ECU, so worth bearing in mind. Even though the TPS now shows _ to - rather than - to top when hot, on the road, the bike is running beautifully with very little ultra-responsiveness on the throttle.


I hope that's the end of the issues on my second GSX-S!!
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post #8 of 10 Old 05-04-2019, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-GSXS-FA View Post
SOLVED!


I decided after much thought and reading online that the only things the fault could be are the ECU or the Idle Speed Control Valve so decided to take the pain of 250 and buy an ISC as the ECU is the price of a second hand car. Until, that is, I found that there wasn't one in the UK or Europe at the major suppliers and the dealers I know and the quoted delivery time as 5-6 weeks. There were some in the US, but they would have been 300+ with import duty. The ISC is used on all the GSX range, the Gladius and a whole range of other bikes, so I have come to the conclusion that this is either a common failure or Suzuki have just updated the part.



In the end I had to buy a second hand ISC as I wanted to get the bike back on the road and after a week, it arrived and I replaced the unit in my bike. Of course this was once I had worked out how to take the airbox and tank off the bike...



The ISC in the bike was not torqued correctly so I suspect that this had been replaced in the past. In fact the old ISC looked like new and much better condition than the second hand ISC I had just bought. However the bike started first touch of the button and ran roughly until nearly warm (about 5 minutes at idle). I turned the ignition off, let it cool and repeated. A much better idle this time, so I decided to reassemble the bike and try again. Yup ran nicely for a third time, so decided today to take it out for a run. 80 miles and no issues or lights on the dash. I can't tell you how excited I got! I can also say that this is only the 3rd run I have managed on this bike since I bought it in March without it breaking down or refusing to start...


Interestingly, the bike now idles at a rock steady 1000 RPM (according to the dash) and runs lovely and smooth now. I suspect that the ISC stored value in the ECU was rubbish, however the 3 static runs allowed the ECU to "learn" a better value. Not only that, however the TPS display setting has changed too! Now this I don't understand


So I think I have established that the TPS and ISC (both providing input/output to the ECU) are all interlinked, clearly by the ECU, so worth bearing in mind. Even though the TPS now shows _ to - rather than - to top when hot, on the road, the bike is running beautifully with very little ultra-responsiveness on the throttle.


I hope that's the end of the issues on my second GSX-S!!
My TPS measures _C00 also and I don't have a problem at all. In fact I'm wondering if having the TPS set low might effectively disable the throttle cut off making everything much better. Just a theory, but I've heard from others on the forum with _C00 and no throttle problems.
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post #9 of 10 Old 05-04-2019, 11:58 PM
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If the - or the + as displayed was out of the calibration range, a yellow FI lamp would be lit up.
No light up, running well - fixed - ride off into the Sunset and enjoy.
The ECU marries all the inputs and then selects the best of many maps to use.

Good outcome, and thanks for sharing with us, as someone else will find this Thread on Google one day and it will help them out too.

Rob.
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post #10 of 10 Old 05-05-2019, 02:26 PM
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Sounds like Job Done
Hopefully now you can just go out and enjoy it!


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