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Delayed downshift from gearbox

6K views 24 replies 14 participants last post by  Supercharger 
#1 ·
Hi can anyone shed some light on this one? My bike has covered 3000 km since new and seems to have developed a weird habit of not shifting down immediately from 3rd to 2nd. This is perhaps not the correct way to describe the feeling I'm getting from the gearbox but it's difficult to explain. The bike shifts gear fine and never misses a shift, gear changes are smooth enough, it's just that when down shifting (especially it seems from 3rd to 2nd) after having made the down shift I can feel a delayed click as the gearbox selects the gear a fraction later. It only seems to do it on down shifts not up. I thought perhaps this was all in my head and so let my son ride it (he rides a 2019 MT10 Yamaha) and after a ride of 10 mins or so he confirmed he felt the same. I don't think the bike had this '' problem'' straight out of the box and the only work I've carried out is to replace the levers (Puig folding adjustable) and an oil change (Motul 10w 40 semi synth) both at around 1000 km. which I think is when it started. I've adjusted the free play in the clutch cable following the manual (at the lever end) any chance it could be the oil? Should I switch to full synth and see if this makes a difference?
any suggestions most appreciated
 
#3 ·
good point Leave It. ..
When you pull in the clutch to downshift, give a strong rev “blip” on the throttle then let out the clutch immediately, all done in one very quick smooth sequence.

Possibly you have a tranny problem, but need to rule out down shifting technique first.
 
#7 ·
Hi Yamato,
Motorcycles use a 'constant mesh' gearbox. You are always in a gear. The different gear drive shafts are coupled by sliding dog clutches. They are always in synchronism or should be due to the design.
This sliding dog clutch engaging is the click sound you hear. The blipping is not to get the gears positioned correctly, it is to match road speed to engine speed via the transmission.

Your not the first person here to report having an issue after using Motul semi synthetic motorcycle oil at the first service time. The posts are on this Forum somewhere.
Changing oil brand and type as I remember it was their eventual cure.
Personally, I use a base mineral oil till the second or 3rd service (reaching that 3rd one is extremely rare for me).

Rob.
 
#9 ·
Ah, I'm not alone! I also feel this delay. I too thought it was in my head. Not sure on which gear and if only on downshift. I'll pay attention.


In any case, I have been using mineral 10w40 from Suzuki until 18k (km). No modification at all. Well blinkers and windshield to say it all. :p So, cannot be more stock than this.


Now I'm using fully synthetic 10w40 and I removed the slip on completely.


Both setup felt the delayed shifts to me. I used to do quarter mile (cars) so quick shift is just in my DNA now. Delay is easily noticeable. I don't like this at all. I have not done any search, but I think it may be by design unfortunately.


Fortunately I don't have many complaints about the bike. Just that and the cheap paint.
 
#11 ·
i dont feel that delay.... at times not often ill down shift threw the gears coming off highway from 6th to 2nd figuring id start feeling some strong engine braking and there,s none...it was surprising for a bike that has no slipper clutch,,,dont even feel like the rpm rise as i down shift...bike is just amazing.....im a blipper its just more fun
 
#12 ·
@yamato, you didn't say it in your original post, but you have a 2019 model bike, correct? The reason I ask is Suzuki went to a 'slipper'-type clutch on these bikes starting in 2018 (here in the USA.) I'm wondering if this 'feel' of a click/delay is related to the switch over to the slipper-type clutch. It almost sounds like a spring of some sort is fighting to pull something into engagement and then...it does. So you are sensing/feeling a slight delay for everything to find it's place on a downshift, making me wonder if it is related in some way to the 'slipper' clutch itself.



But I may be going down the wrong path on this as @danGTS is also reporting a 'delay' in downshift and he joined this forum in 2016 which would lead me to believe he must have a "pre-slipper-clutch" bike (2016/2017). What say you @danGTS? What model year bike are you running?



If it were me, I'd pull the countershaft sprocket cover and clean everything up in there. Sometimes enough chain lube flings off and builds up and causes issues. This isn't a 'hard' job and I don't think it is the problem, but there is an outside chance it could be, so it's worth the 10 minutes to pull it, clean everything up under there, and eliminate that variable.



The other thing I would do is lube your clutch cable. Again, I don't think this is your issue with only 3000km (1800mi) on the bike, BUT if the clutch cable isn't moving easily and freely, it can 'drag' a big and cause issues. Not a time consuming chore to lube it if you have the cable lubing device:
https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0182-Cable-Luber/dp/B0012TYX9W
Again, I'm not confident this is THE problem, but a lubed cable is never 'wrong' and it might help.


And, I know it seems like a "it can't be that" type thing, but I am with @Reagenn - try going back to your STOCK clutch lever. There is a post on here somewhere about a person chasing a 'bad running' bike issue for months only to find out it was the aftermarket levers he put on his bike! When he put back on the stock levers, viola!, bike is running right again. Go figure. Just a thought. Something to consider and try. When you have a 'problem', the closer you can get back to 'stock' the better your luck at diagnosing the problem. Switch the lever back, go for a ride and see if the 'delay' is still showing up. You might be surprised.

Good luck. Keep us posted.
 

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#15 ·
Froggy suggested above the lubing the clutch cable could be a solution.
I am just wondering if our reasonably new bikes are not fitted with a clutch cable with a nylon type inner coating that does not need any lube for the life of the clutch cable ?

I do know if you lube with oil based product on nylon type surfaces, it gets worse not better after a while when the oil gums up.
Any chance the friendly shop serviceman gave it a squirt from the spray can at the servicing ?

Rob.
 
#18 ·
Lubing GOOD

Froggy suggested above the lubing the clutch cable could be a solution.
I am just wondering if our reasonably new bikes are not fitted with a clutch cable with a nylon type inner coating that does not need any lube for the life of the clutch cable? I do know if you lube with oil based product on nylon type surfaces, it gets worse not better after a while when the oil gums up. Any chance the friendly shop serviceman gave it a squirt from the spray can at the servicing ? Rob.
Hey Rob,
Love the warning about NOT using petroleum based products to lube. I should have SPECIFIED the lube I use (silicone based; safe for nylon.)

Champions Choice Cable Life ($6 a can)

PJ1 also makes a good cable lube (non-petroleum based.) It's about $10 a can.


The "theory" that a nylon lined cable doesn't need lubed sounds good, but the reality is things get 'stiction-y' over time (dirt? cable starts to cut into nylon?) and some lube smooths things up again. At least that's how it was with my CBRs and FZ-1. I doubt this is the issue BUT you tackle the simple/obvious first before getting too 'mechanical' with trouble shooting. I'm hoping some lube and putting the OEM lever back on makes all right in @Yamato world again.
 
#16 ·
Hi yes I took delivery of the bike in March 2019 but it´s probably stock left over from 2018 which was discounted to offset the ridiculous registration tax here in Belgium for the ´full power´ version. I´ll definitely try reinstalling the original clutch lever and lube the cable ( thanks for the link)
cheers
Neil.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Hey @Yamato , if it's a 2018 model, then no slipper clutch, so that makes it a less complicated system under the clutch cover. Hmmm...lubing cable still good plan. Putting on OEM clutch lever still a good plan (just to 'see'). If that doesn't fix it, we'll have to revisit and consider other possibilities and options.


EDITED 09/06/2019: The 2018 and 2019 model year bikes DO have 'slipper-clutches'. The 2016-2017 model year bikes have 'standard' (non-slipper) clutches. I apologize for the error above. Thanks.
 
#21 ·
I was looking at some pictures of the clutch lever on Suzi Au web just now, and I see that there is no rubber boot over the clutch cable end at the hand lever.
My 750 has one and so did the Gladius 650. It may be there for appearance, but it does stop water and dirt from going down via the open slot in the adjuster.
I remember on my 1000, this slot always seemed to end up front on in the wind when adjusted just so, and I had to twist the adjuster 90 degrees from ideal.
Wonder if the 750 boot would fit on the 1000 clutch lever cable?

Rob.
 
#24 ·
Refer back to Post #12 , where I was fully aware that 2016 and 2017 bikes were NON-slipper and 2018 and newer bikes WERE slipper clutches. I have no idea how I lost my mind after that post and 'decided' 2018 bikes were 'old' bikes. @Slower and Slower, @oldjackbob, and @GSXS-NH, please consider me 're-educated'. And thanks for being polite about letting me know I'd lost my mind. Much appreciated guys! I'll slip off and try to stay on my meds from this point on...
 
#25 ·
I agree the oil sounds like the culprit. FWIW, I now use Rotella T6 full synthetic and my bikes shifts smooth as butter. Downshifts will always be a bit more work as speeds drop below 10mph or so but nothing a blip can't cure.

I also agree shifting a big Vtwin is much different than a GSX because of the difference in flywheel effect. You can make slow lazy shifts and a big twin smoothly, but the GSX loses revs too fast for that nonsense haha.
 
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