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GSXS1000f 2015 throttle position sensors 13580-14J00 and/or 13580-29G00

Hi Guys, I had an issue with my bike not responding to throttle movements some time ago. The issue seemed to go away but now it is back again 10 months later. It often occurs when I give the throttle a quick twist to overtake etc but will occur at other times as well. The bike sometimes gives me no power at all when I twist the throttle and/ or goes into a coughing and spluttering sequence. No lights come on. If I hit the kill switch and then turn it back on the bike mostly recovers immediately with the fix lasting from seconds to minutes or even hours before the issue occurs again. I have changed the plugs and air filter, the tank has been off and there didn't seem to be an issue with fuel filter. Has anyone had issues like this before or has any ideas other than the sensors? Can anyone tell me what the two throttle sensors 13580-29G00 and 13605-02F00 do individually so I can make a decision as to replacing both or just one most likely to be the issue? The issues seems worse when the bike is hot. Seems worse on long rides (I often do 500 + km in a day for multiple days)The issue seems worse when the bike is under strain, overtaking or going up hill. Rough roads seem to make it worse. The issue can also just occur for no obvious reason going straight ahead on level ground with no strain. I'm struggling to diagnose this but it became dangerous when I was traveling in multi lane traffic the other day and I have to get to the bottom of the issue.
 

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Yes, I've ;had that happen and had it fully investigated by experts and no-one could get is to replicate when it was in the workshop of course, but then it would happen on the road. The one constant, here in Australia, was hot days and long rides. Finally I spoke to a Suzuki dealer in Launceston Tasmania, and he confirmed that one of his customers had it happen when he rode up to Cape York (the very hot tip of Ausrlia). His verdict was that the only explanation is when the bike gets hot, but no-one has every isoloated, which part is getting hot and failing. One thing is true though, let the blighter cool down and the problem goes away for a while. I even suspected it was the boosterplug, but I contacted its inventor, Jens Lyck in Denmark and he confirmed it wasn't that; indeed if you don't have a boosterplug on your bike, that proves it. So you are not the only one, but there is no answer yet.
 

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I want to add that during the investigation one theory was a block of air into the tank, nup, and so it went on with weeks of investgation. If you find an snwer please let me know.Mine hasn't done it for a while,but it's been winter.
 

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Hi Jo,
Have you considered the IAT sensor ? One Member here had a failure with one some time back.
The symptoms include poor acceleration. Does the fuel economy show anything good or bad ?
The IAT (air intake temperature sensor) in at the back of the air filter box. Perhaps the connector is a bit loose if some work was done to that part the motor, like re setting the fuel mixture's ?

Here's a link to a site I Googled on IAT failure. https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/symptoms-of-a-bad-or-failing-air-charge-temperature-sensor

Rob
 

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I don't know what a boosterplug is, so if it is an aftermarket something or other, I don't have one. :) I will let you know if I actually find out anything of any help.
 

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My problem first manifested after the major service, which was stuffed up by the Suzuki Dealer. When I was on a 4 day ride the guys I was riding with tried to diagnose the issue. At an overnight stop they pulled the tank off the bike and found that the air box had not been properly seated and screwed down so it have been bumping up and down. that made them think that some kind of air intake sensor may have been giving false readings. The issue was not fixed with the air box being properly secured however. Could the IAT have been affected at that time do you think? On a slightly different note my bike seems good on fuel compared to a freind who has a ninja 1000 of the same vintage. My bike is very particular on fuel and will not run on 91 octane which others say is strange as it should run but just ping etc.
 

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I just wanted to ask again if anyone might know why there are 2x throttle position sensors and exactly how this works, e.g. does the second one cut in above a certain RPM, etc. The part # are different for these too.
 

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If it's an ECU issue, disconnecting the negative battery terminal for a while may reset something?
 

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Your part numbers - one is a screw and once is the sensor. The sensor cost $80.00 and is possibly (likely??) defective. Before you buy one, adjust your TPS to between 1.10v - 1.13v. Numerous threads on how to do so. If that does not fix it, then replace the sensor.
 

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Your part numbers - one is a screw and once is the sensor. The sensor cost $80.00 and is possibly (likely??) defective. Before you buy one, adjust your TPS to between 1.10v - 1.13v. Numerous threads on how to do so. If that does not fix it, then replace the sensor.
Hi GSXS-NH, could you pls explain why you only suggest replacing this sensor (#6 ) and not the second one?
.SENSOR ASSY 13580-14J00


I am still quite confused since there are 2 TPS sensors, the second one being
.SENSOR ASSY 13580-29G00


You can see in the below parts list #6 & #7 :

 

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My problem first manifested after the major service, which was stuffed up by the Suzuki Dealer. When I was on a 4 day ride the guys I was riding with tried to diagnose the issue. At an overnight stop they pulled the tank off the bike and found that the air box had not been properly seated and screwed down so it have been bumping up and down. that made them think that some kind of air intake sensor may have been giving false readings. The issue was not fixed with the air box being properly secured however. Could the IAT have been affected at that time do you think? On a slightly different note my bike seems good on fuel compared to a freind who has a ninja 1000 of the same vintage. My bike is very particular on fuel and will not run on 91 octane which others say is strange as it should run but just ping etc.
When you say it won't run on 91, I'm assuming you're using something higher? That must mean you're at a lower altitude than me . I can only (conveniently) get 91 max. Lower altitudes around here will have 93, but I guess at altitude and less oxygen it means lower octane works like higher octane does at lower elevations. Mine runs like a freakin' monster on 91.

;)
 

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I just wanted to ask again if anyone might know why there are 2x throttle position sensors and exactly how this works, e.g. does the second one cut in above a certain RPM, etc. The part # are different for these too.
You have two TPS's because you have primary and secondary throttle blades. The primary is controlled by the your right wrist (throttle cables), the secondaries are controlled by a servo motor to smooth power delivery.
 

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You have two TPS's because you have primary and secondary throttle blades. The primary is controlled by the your right wrist (throttle cables), the secondaries are controlled by a servo motor to smooth power delivery.
Thanks for clearing that up Supercharger, now for a followup stupid question ;)
Which one of the two TPS sensors is the primary/main and the likely one to try replacing first?




 

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You have two TPS's because you have primary and secondary throttle blades. The primary is controlled by the your right wrist (throttle cables), the secondaries are controlled by a servo motor to smooth power delivery.
Thanks for clearing that up Supercharger, now for a followup stupid question /forum/images/DiscoverySport_net/smilies/tango_face_wink.png
Which one of the two TPS sensors is the primary/main and the likely one to try replacing first?




Part #6 is the TP sensor.
Part #7 is the STP sensor or secondary throttle position sensor.
To check the TP sensor voltage you will need the TP sensor lead and a multimeter.
 

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Hi GSXS-NH, could you pls explain why you only suggest replacing this sensor (#6 ) and not the second one?
.SENSOR ASSY 13580-14J00
I am still quite confused since there are 2 TPS sensors, the second one being
.SENSOR ASSY 13580-29G00
You can see in the below parts list #6 & #7 :
Hi James,
The top TB , the secondary TPS, is the feedback to the ECU that the actuator has turned the top butterfly shaft as directed by the ECU. Think of that buttery as the equivalent of a mechanical choke in a carby.
The lower one is the Primary and tells the ECU where your throttle hand grip (turned wise) is in relation to idle resting. Like how much you have revved the throttle in degrees of turning.

And James welcome aboard to the Forum. It would be appreciated if you had made your own Thread as it's a bit confusing with the answers if you hijack some other Members issue.

Rob.
 

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Hi James,
The top TB , the secondary TPS, is the feedback to the ECU that the actuator has turned the top butterfly shaft as directed by the ECU. Think of that buttery as the equivalent of a mechanical choke in a carby.
The lower one is the Primary and tells the ECU where your throttle hand grip (turned wise) is in relation to idle resting. Like how much you have revved the throttle in degrees of turning.

And James welcome aboard to the Forum. It would be appreciated if you had made your own Thread as it's a bit confusing with the answers if you hijack some other Members issue.

Rob.
Rob, apologies if it looks like I hijacked Jo's thread, she's my girlfriend and I'm actually following up on her behalf.
I'll be the one doing this work on her bike so wanted to make sure I was clear on what we should try and resolve any other questions I had.
 

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I don't think you have a TPS issue, sounds to me like you are losing fuel pressure.

You can check the TPS's with a multimeter before you waste money replacing good parts.
 

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I’m assuming you’ve already run the bike under some amount of throttle (at a standstill) with tank up and wiggled all the wires to Ecu plugs and sensors to see if it does anything? If you suspect heat issue with tps, again with tank up, heat it with something (hair dryer, heat gun on low setting). It’s on the side of the engine so it’s pretty easy to get to. Just don’t MELT it! Could do the same with ecu but since ecu is on top of airbox and somewhat isolated from engine heat I’d doubt its a heat issue with it, but you never know.
 

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This problem (OP) sounds like a crankshaft position sensor going bad. (Could be a camshaft position sensor, too, but the CRANKSHAFT one is almost always the real problem.) They are fine until they get really hot, then they start malfunctioning because the heat causes them to expand and short out, then work again, then short out, and so it goes. They are the devil to diagnose and fix because they have to be really hot to 'induce' the problem. Best "fix" is to just replace it as 'testing' it won't reveal the problem (can't get it hot enough just in a shop to 'induce' the problem.)



Here's a quick excerpt:
A Crankshaft-Camshaft Position Sensor that is starting to go bad (but isn't totally 'fried' yet) can produce a confusing range of problems, to include:

  • Engine jerking and losing power
  • Loss of engine power; for example, no acceleration above 35 mph
  • Stalling
  • Irregular acceleration
  • Misfiring
  • Hard starting
  • Surging
Another thing that can make testing the Crankshaft-Camshaft Position Sensor seem intimidating is the fact that every make and model uses a different type of Position Sensor.
Function

The functional objective for the crankshaft position sensor is to determine the position and/or rotational speed (RPM) of the crank. Engine Control Units (ECUs) use the information transmitted by the sensor to control parameters such as ignition timing and fuel injection timing. The sensor output may also be related to other sensor data including the cam position to derive the current combustion cycle, this is very important for the starting of a four stroke engine.



Sometimes, the sensor may become burnt or worn out - or just die of old age at high mileage. One likely cause of crankshaft position sensor failure is exposure to extreme heat. Others are vibration causing a wire to fracture or corrosion on the pins of harness connectors.
 

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except are bikes don't use a cam sensor, just an AP sensor. the k5 engine uses a cam sensor located on the valve cover, on the gsxs you will see its blocked off
 
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