GSXS 1000 Forum banner

21 - 40 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
986 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
One of the disadvantages of the Motion Pro tool is if you rotate the wheel while it's clipped to the sprocket, you are likely to ruin it. Did that today and it rotated up and hit the chain guard, slightly bending the rod. A while back my son did something similar, but I guess got it caught in the chain somehow and it looked like a pretzel. Probably just need to buy some steel rod so I can have spares.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
I use a 6" ruler and measure end of swingarm to rear spacer block. i turn slack adjuster and measure both side equally been working for me and alignment is never a problem. I set chain slack to .850" and always check slack every 600 miles of chain cleaning and lube.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
Well, you guys have some really nice time proven techniques that work really well, and I've used a couple of them before.
But lasers are cool! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
986 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Well, you guys have some really nice time proven techniques that work really well, and I've used a couple of them before.
But lasers are cool! ;)
Due to the difficulty of using the Motion Pro on this bike, I ordered the Profi CAT based on your earlier mention of it. I know it's a little pricey, but worth it to me for a quick "peace-of-mind" check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
I use a 6" ruler and measure end of swingarm to rear spacer block. i turn slack adjuster and measure both side equally been working for me and alignment is never a problem. I set chain slack to .850" and always check slack every 600 miles of chain cleaning and lube.
I have also used this method on other bikes I owned. I had a nice metal 6 inch pocket slide rule I used but somehow have lost and had to resort to the string method..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
I have also used this method on other bikes I owned. I had a nice metal 6 inch pocket slide rule I used but somehow have lost and had to resort to the string method..
They sell the 6" ruler at Home depot or Lowes if your tired of the string method, otherwise all methods that works for you and saves you money are good ideas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
They sell the 6" ruler at Home depot or Lowes if your tired of the string method, otherwise all methods that works for you and saves you money are good ideas.
I really prefer the ruler as it is so easy to use. I will certainly pick one up. Thanks for the info :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
986 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
I've also used the ruler method to the rear of the swingarm (actually a dial caliper), but that isn't inherently any more accurate than using the marks, as the same error sources can creep in, plus possible slight variations in the overall length of the swingarms. As long as you proceed carefully and methodically, most any method will probably yield acceptable results on new-ish bikes with no damage. I frequently check using two or three different methods, and so far at least, they have all been reasonably close.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Let’s be quite clear that any system of measurement which doesn’t measure the position of both wheels simultaneously isn’t full wheel alignment. At best, it’s chain alignment or alignment with the swingarm. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this and using swingarm marks, rules, callipers or whatever have been employed since bikes first hit the road.

However, unless you measure the alignment of both wheels simultaneously, you have no idea whether there’s something wrong or not. “Gut feel” is misleading because you get used to things, just like you don’t notice the heavier steering as a tyre wears. I’m a retired professional engineer so I’m a bit anal (the word my wife uses :D) when it comes to getting solid data. That’s why I built a laser rig in 2003, simply to find out what sort of errors can occur. How much of a misalignment affects handling is open to debate but I’m happy if I can get the offset between the two wheels to 5mm or less. I’ve measured the offset after tyre changes by my local dealer and it’s been significantly more. Small movements at the axle translate into substantially bigger errors at the tyre edge or with the other wheel.

I’m not advocating one method above any other. Just saying that until you measure something, you don’t have reliable data.
In addition to the full link I posted earlier of my setup, I've attached a photo of the laser emitter with the beam just kissing the maximum width of the rear tyre on my old Street Triple.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
986 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Geoff - my original thinking was not about wheel alignment, but making sure the chain is running parallel to the sprockets (or specifically, the rear sprocket since I don't even consider the front). I've always thought this was the important thing, and you then just hope the wheels fall in line. It sounds like what you are inferring is that whether the chain actually runs true with the sprockets is really irrelevant, and doing that is just one method of aligning the wheels.

So should the wheels be aligned, even if to the detriment of the chain running parallel to the sprockets?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
Gary,
No, I'm not inferring at all that chain alignment isn't important as it clearly is. However, chain alignment and wheel alignment aren't mutually exclusive. Good chain alignment protects from excessive mechanical wear and good wheel alignment assists good handling. Sorry if my phrasing was a bit clumsy. Generally speaking, doing a proper wheel alignment will also ensure that chain alignment will be pretty good too unless, for example; you have swingarm or fork issues from a mishap.

It's all about context. I rode bikes for decades without worrying about decent alignment. Many of them were "old school" Triumphs with flexi frames. That, coupled with my lack of talent as a rider probably meant that good alignment wouldn't have made much difference anyway. With modern, more precise handling and higher performance, any improvement is worthwhile. It goes back to my earlier comment that if you can't measure something, you don't know how good or bad your setup is. Just like setting up your suspension. As I said, my views are influenced by my background *grin*

Hope that helps!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
Geoff - my original thinking was not about wheel alignment, but making sure the chain is running parallel to the sprockets (or specifically, the rear sprocket since I don't even consider the front). I've always thought this was the important thing, and you then just hope the wheels fall in line. It sounds like what you are inferring is that whether the chain actually runs true with the sprockets is really irrelevant, and doing that is just one method of aligning the wheels.

So should the wheels be aligned, even if to the detriment of the chain running parallel to the sprockets?
I've had the same concern. It seems to me, if you did both measurements and they conflict, you have to choose between chain alignment and wheel alignment (which, with 2 wheels just means the bike is "dog walking"). In my mind, it is more likely that the chain is off than the whole frame, unless you've had a crash which resulted in twisted frame, fork, wheels, etc.... If they are both off, it's probably best to find a compromise, but I'd lean towards chain alignment as being most important. So either way, I want my chain to be aligned, unless the more educated among us here convinces me otherwise. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
I've had the same concern. It seems to me, if you did both measurements and they conflict, you have to choose between chain alignment and wheel alignment (which, with 2 wheels just means the bike is "dog walking"). In my mind, it is more likely that the chain is off than the whole frame, unless you've had a crash which resulted in twisted frame, fork, wheels, etc.... If they are both off, it's probably best to find a compromise, but I'd lean towards chain alignment as being most important. So either way, I want my chain to be aligned, unless the more educated among us here convinces me otherwise. ;)


I also vote for that.


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
I just did a chain adjustment and got things as close as possible using the alignment marks. I then used my Profi Laser CAT and tweaked it more. It looks like on my bike the marks on the swingarm are off by about the width of one of the alignment marks. So the alignment marks are pretty darn close and I'm sure it would be good enough to just go by them. Then I lubed the chain, and now life is good. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
Got the Profi laser works a treat. Hard to beat the laser, just put it against the sprocket (on these Suzuki's there is a stepped rear sprocket ) but just be a bit careful lining it up, then swing it up and down the chain line to see where the chain is at. Don't need to use it each time. I used the laser the first time on this bike after setting up EXACTLY on the marks on swingarm and found it to be 100% when I checked alignment. Now all I do is Exactly back off both side adjusting bolts in future to get correct slack (when necessary).
Jeffro ��
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Well I may be in a minority here but wheel alignment is more important to me than chain life since I can replace a chain but not my life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
Well I may be in a minority here but wheel alignment is more important to me than chain life since I can replace a chain but not my life.
It's probably wise to check both, at least initially and after any 'incident', but if they conflict, and you can't find a good compromise, and it's the frame, you shouldn't be adjusting the rear wheel to compensate, you should be looking for a new bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
When you get your chain properly aligned you will hear virtually no chain noise when spin the back wheel on a paddock stand if your chain is clean and lubed. I used the motion pro rod tool on the bottom of the sprocket with the back up on a paddock stand. My chain was out of alignment, and after adjusting properly i noticed smoother shifting, and the already mentioned quietness when spinning the back wheel on a paddock stand. I a still a bit shocked at what a difference proper alignment made in shift feel. Shifting was never bad, but now it is buttery smooth. Even a little bit of chain/sprocket friction seems to make a difference in shift quality.

Our bike has an adjuster bolt through the frame to adjust engine alignment. Maybe someone with a service manual can tell us how the adjustment is made. Would seem to make sense to adjust wheel alignment, then adjust the engine/ front sprocket to be inline with the rear sprocket.
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
Top