Comparing acceleration GSX-S1000F vs Ninja 1000
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I've ridden both and will say that the N1000 is quite a bit smoother. The Suzuki is a bit more abrupt and violent... best way I could describe.
What's interesting is I think this might be a regional thing. In my region there is no emissions testing or anything and the bike i just bought doesn't seem to have any of the violent acceleration issues people talk about (particularly from the UK/Australia and sometimes California).
I'm not 100% certain since my test rides have been fairly low speed (limiting myself to 5700 RPM for the first 500 mi) and mostly short-lived (cold af).
But comparing my experience in the same gears and RPMs with the video of the guy going from a herky jerky stock bike to one with the PCV, I don't think I have the same issues.
This was something I was actually pretty concerned about and even pre-ordered a PCV before I took delivery of the bike (later came to my senses and cancelled it to test the bike out first). The Suzuki regional rep around these parts said he never heard of these issues in this area but would assist me if there were problems.
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I think he just meant the powerband. The Ninja 1000 has power almost everywhere. Our bike doesn't start flapping its d*ck around until about 7k, then it's super violent acceleration. Our bike has a very supersport style powerband, the Ninja 1000 is much sport tourer. If you've ever ridden a CB1000R you'd know what I was talking about. That thing is so user friendly and smooth it's digusting. You can go flat out in any gear and it pulls the same from wherever you start. It's sickening smooth, I hated it.
The snatchy throttle is completely different, that just meants you can't really ride at a normal pace, especially in the lower revs. If you ride a bike that has this issue it'll look like you're on a bucking horse even when you're just trying to be as smooth as possible.
Yes our bikes definitely follow a more 600cc supersport powerband.
One of my favorite dynos on this bike is putting it against the K5
There the K5 has that more linear power delivery similar to other liter sport bikes. The Ninja 1000 is no exception, just like about any other liter+ sport bike you look at, even the Hyabusa and ZX-14R.
The reason they are smooth is because as they increase in RPM there are no sudden increases in torque, it's a nice smooth sloping gradient that holds it form before slowly dropping off near the top of the powerband.
If you remember when I was describing it earlier, horsepower is basically a function of torque and RPM... so long as you keep the RPM increasing smoothly and the torque the engine produces is pretty steady throughout the rev range then that will translate to a smooth, linear increase in HP felt by the rider.
Problem is our bikes have those two strange dips in torque that result in those two areas that have violent acceleration. It's interesting how different the character of an actual K5 is vs the derivative in our bikes. If that is all purely because of emissions I don't know. If it is, my bike seems to be devoid of the throttle problems and I will probably end up taking it to a dyno to see how it looks. I might do that pretty soon in fact. Maybe a good ECU reflash will make the engine behave similarly to the K5?
I admit I haven't taken it must past 7k since I'm trying to keep her under 5700 RPM so everything mates properly but I am definitely curious to experience that 8k surge now.
Here is another interesting dyno comparing the GSX-S vs a Ninja 1000
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no MT-10 was injured in this test
Already did, got speed wobble out of it. Going to have to get the suspension dialed in and possibly look at a steering damper. Amazing power though.
I can't agree with several of the comments posted on this thread about snatch, poor power curves and not being comparable to the R K5. The issues with S are the result of poor set up.
I've attached my dyno results, from a race tuner in Northampton. Blue is stock bike, green is after a few mods including a Rapidbike Evo fuel controller. It is currently in auto mode but I'm due to take it back for further tuning but just look at what a quick setup has resulted in.
Bhp is rear wheel and torque is ft lb. Tests were at the same facility by the same tech. Results speak for them selves but the bike is making 175bhp at the crank and over 80ft lb!
Hope this provides some insight to resolve some questions.
I've attached my dyno results, from a race tuner in Northampton. Blue is stock bike, green is after a few mods including a Rapidbike Evo fuel controller. It is currently in auto mode but I'm due to take it back for further tuning but just look at what a quick setup has resulted in.
Bhp is rear wheel and torque is ft lb. Tests were at the same facility by the same tech. Results speak for them selves but the bike is making 175bhp at the crank and over 80ft lb!
Hope this provides some insight to resolve some questions.
Attachments
I'm thinking my dyno might look pretty similar.
Edit:
Good tune by the looks of it, but that 5-7K RPM curve still needs to be smoothed out. If you take it back, try to see if your tech can get the whole rev range to be as linear as the actual K5.. Would be interesting to see what is possible in that regard.
Thanks Chuck. The curve is pretty good off the stock Rapidbike map but I get what you mean and plan too. At present the Rapidbike Evo is on autotune and needs a few hundred miles on it to bed in, during this time it will tweak the map itself. Next task is back to the dyno to see what that tweaking has done, then a big of extra manual tweaking.
I'll post up new plots when their available but won't be till the new year.
I'll post up new plots when their available but won't be till the new year.
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Autotune on Rapidbike is pretty limited , cannot understand why people still buying this crap from dimsport....
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Just lift the front tire higher when accelerating, no speed wobble here!
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The Ninja 1000 has one odd trait, and it sort of cheats in this regard. Its supposed to be a sport touring bike (i think?), and its certainly not a naked bike.....so, what gives with its transmission?
Its top three gears are spaced close together. The suzuki feels more like a real 4.5.6 gear transition.
The Ninja top 3 gears are spaced very close to each other. The ninja, in 6th gear, is more like the suzuki in 5th.
Its not a great thing to have, but it makes its acceleration times better, although you suffer on a day droning along at 70 mph as it spins a lot of revs at 70, and semi drives you nuts.
Many use a larger front sprocket, but that makes 1st gear not so great in traffic.
The ninja runs a thousand percent better with Ivans reflash, but all in all, I think the Suzuki has a better motor. Maybe not for a guy who always stays under 5000 rpm, but above that, for sure it does.
Its top three gears are spaced close together. The suzuki feels more like a real 4.5.6 gear transition.
The Ninja top 3 gears are spaced very close to each other. The ninja, in 6th gear, is more like the suzuki in 5th.
Its not a great thing to have, but it makes its acceleration times better, although you suffer on a day droning along at 70 mph as it spins a lot of revs at 70, and semi drives you nuts.
Many use a larger front sprocket, but that makes 1st gear not so great in traffic.
The ninja runs a thousand percent better with Ivans reflash, but all in all, I think the Suzuki has a better motor. Maybe not for a guy who always stays under 5000 rpm, but above that, for sure it does.
There are 3 models which one are you referring to as the race has multiple maps accessed by a switch, traction control, pit lane limited, launch control, etc. I don't see how you can call that limited. Show me a pcv that matches that!
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PC5 why ?
I wrote about power commander? Did I ?
Crappy quality , customers service is a nightmare , autotune is just ridiculous
I wrote about power commander? Did I ?
Crappy quality , customers service is a nightmare , autotune is just ridiculous
Opinion based in what? Very little it seems. From experience I can tell you my bike fuelling issues have been fully resolved by the Rapidbike EVO and it's crappy autotune!
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Your opinion is tiny Pal, as I had problem with more than 15 units in the past , bikes are my job since 26 years as testdriver
rapid bike US contact me just last week for clarify this ...
Can understand you have no clue about how Dimsport really work ,
BTW fuelling issues were solved here in the forum with:
tps calibration
new ecu
memejet
boosterplug
few type/brand/art of reflash
PC5
Someone don t even have those problems ,You (and sure others) with rapid bike
Get into that, look how the autotune work ( with bit of luck 75% of accuracy)
Than I m ready to discuss nother time with you
rapid bike US contact me just last week for clarify this ...
Can understand you have no clue about how Dimsport really work ,
BTW fuelling issues were solved here in the forum with:
tps calibration
new ecu
memejet
boosterplug
few type/brand/art of reflash
PC5
Someone don t even have those problems ,You (and sure others) with rapid bike
Get into that, look how the autotune work ( with bit of luck 75% of accuracy)
Than I m ready to discuss nother time with you
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451 Posts
Ghostrider, are you talking abotu this:
Rapidbike Software Master | DIMSPORT - ENGINE CALIBRATION SPECIALISTS
And could an average person order this in, from italy, and not have issues working with it?
From the looks of it, it appears about 10,000 times more advanced than a powrcommander or other products we have available here in the USA.
Rapidbike Software Master | DIMSPORT - ENGINE CALIBRATION SPECIALISTS
And could an average person order this in, from italy, and not have issues working with it?
From the looks of it, it appears about 10,000 times more advanced than a powrcommander or other products we have available here in the USA.
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