[JeffroGymnast]

Hey everyone,

I've been in contact with FT-ECU (FlashTune) for the past couple months and they just released a flashing package for our bike. You can either mail your ECU to them to be flashed, or buy a flashing kit that enables you to do it yourself (or a dyno operator) unlimited times.

I'm gonna grab a flashing kit soon, and wanted to let everyone else here know about it. The flash kit is similarly priced to a PCV, but lets you change a lot more (see my attached picture). We have access to throttle-based fuel maps, pressure-based fuel maps, ignition maps (Suzuki reduces power until 4th gear using this), exhaust flap position, fan control, quick-shifting, speed limiter, etc. IMO it looks like the best solution for the snatchy throttle issue.

Here's a link to the website: https://ftecu.com/shop/category/16-17-gsxs1000/

I am not advertising for FT-ECU, I'm just excited that we finally have the right tools to fix our bikes...!

BTW, if you download the software and make an account (totally free), you can load up the stock GSX-S maps and compare them to the software that FT-ECU made for a GSX-S with a slip-on. Pretty cool to poke around inside the ECU.

edit: I added pics of TPS/RPM fuel maps for the stock bike, bike with slip-on, and % comparison. Pretty crazy how much fuel is being added/subtracted at certain points!

 

[LuckyGS]

Interesting ..............:nerd:

 

[USSENTERNCC1701E]

What's their warranty like? I'm always a little wearing of flashing EEPROM especially without direct manufacturer support.

 

[JeffroGymnast]

What's their warranty like? I'm always a little wearing of flashing EEPROM especially without direct manufacturer support.

Are you concerned about bricking the ECU (failed flash), or wearing out the EEPROM? For the first issue, they have authorized dealers that can help flash the ECU (or you can mail it in). For the second issue, I wouldn't be worried about flashing it a few times, as sport bike riders have been flashing their ECUs for awhile with great success. I guess the safe bet would be to mail it in, then you can blame them if the ECU comes back bricked.

 

[USSENTERNCC1701E]

Only concerned about bricking it. EEPROM wearing out is kind of a ridiculous fear with today's tech, the physical connection ports will wear out first. I wish I knew more about the ECM storage. I betting since we can flash it, this isn't a redundant system with integrity check, so the risk of a failed flash bricking it is probably relatively high.

 

[JeffroGymnast]

Only concerned about bricking it. EEPROM wearing out is kind of a ridiculous fear with today's tech, the physical connection ports will wear out first. I wish I knew more about the ECM storage. I betting since we can flash it, this isn't a redundant system with integrity check, so the risk of a failed flash bricking it is probably relatively high.

It really depends on the actual architecture of the ECU. We have no idea how much the flashtune is actually flashing. It could be the case that it's only changing the calibration data (ie fuel maps) and not touching the bootloader, engine functions, software flasher, etc. Who knows.

 

[USSENTERNCC1701E]

Hmmm, here's an idea, compare Bazzaz and PCV map file sizes to the FT size. Get an idea of the order of magnitude were looking at. It's a safe bet that the entire ECM program will be a few orders larger at least.

Edit:....or I guess we could ask FT, but where's the fun in that

 

[JeffroGymnast]

Hmmm, here's an idea, compare Bazzaz and PCV map file sizes to the FT size. Get an idea of the order of magnitude were looking at. It's a safe bet that the entire ECM program will be a few orders larger at least.

Edit:....or I guess we could ask FT, but where's the fun in that

Well, it looks like the FT software saves the files in a folder called "ECU Images" and they are 521 KB in size.

 

[USSENTERNCC1701E]

Hmmm, Bazzaz maps are 1KB, PCV are 2KB. It's possible that the computer software to program the units compiles the maps into something much larger, inside the Bazzaz program folder is the mapper library which is 101KB.

So, lets consider what the Z-Fi and PCV maps actually are. They're a 2D array, a map of throttle opening and engine RPM to a % correction (effectively how long the injectors are open), you can also (at least for Z-Fi, add broad spectrum corrections per gear, but that's just 6 additional values, so not too crazy). The ECU takes into account: throttle, crank position, intake temp, two O2 sensors (I'm pretty sure we have two), gear position sensor (unlike the mappers, I'm pretty sure each gear has it's own map, but we'll ignore this for now)... at least. And it outputs ignition timing, injector timing (both when it opens and how long it stays open). So in this case we're looking at a complicated tensor mapping 5D inputs into 3D output arrays.

Then when you consider the ECM also handles TC and ABS, and what we're looking at above is only the maps, not the the instruction sets to navigate the maps... I'd expect the whole ECM image to be much, much, much larger than hundreds of KB.

I'd say what we're looking at here is a "data" partition. I feel a lot more comfortable about it. Now, next question, how does the FT program write? Cause if it's taking your "image" and injecting it into a larger full system image, you still run the same failed flash risk. I'm not concerned with a poorly programmed map, I'm worried at random stuff happening during the flash. Windows update reboots a the worst possible time ever, battery dies, kink in the cable, terminal corrosion you hadn't noticed, etc. So, I wonder when you flash, will it be super quick, takes a couple seconds from pressing send to getting confirmation, or will it sit and say "processing" or the like for a few minutes until a progress bar launches from 50% to 100% in a blink.

 

[JeffroGymnast]

In my experience (I am actually an engine controls and calibration engineer), the calibration data (hex file) is around 1/2 MB but that is for a much more complicated car engine. I would be shocked if our GSX-S's have even 1/50th the complexity of the ECM's I work with. That goes for amount of calibration data too. IMO there's no way our bikes have 521 KB of calibration data.

 

[nicka]

Interesting, a good option I think as watching a YouTube tutorial it can also correct out speedo so this could be a one stop shop for our bike

 

[USSENTERNCC1701E]

In my experience (I am actually an engine controls and calibration engineer), the calibration data (hex file) is around 1/2 MB but that is for a much more complicated car engine. I would be shocked if our GSX-S's have even 1/50th the complexity of the ECM's I work with. That goes for amount of calibration data too. IMO there's no way our bikes have 521 KB of calibration data.

What about the car engine makes them much more complicated?

Edit: I am somewhat doubting the 1/50th, but not you're expertise, I am genuinely curious about this to educate myself and eliminate my doubt, not to challenge you.

 

[rcannon409]

Just asking in general, t sounds as if there might be a limit to how many times an ecu can be reflashed? Not looking for an exact number, but how high might that number be?

I'll bet if thats true, a powercommander in and of itself would be subject to the same limit???

 

[JeffroGymnast]

What about the car engine makes them much more complicated?

Edit: I am somewhat doubting the 1/50th, but not you're expertise, I am genuinely curious about this to educate myself and eliminate my doubt, not to challenge you.

To be brief. A modern, sufficiently powerful emissions-compliant (the emissions thing is the huge thing here) engine has a lot more information going in and a lot more information going out. To name some control systems that I deal with that just aren't present in bikes yet... Variable intake valve timing, exhaust valve timing, variable valve lift, direct injection, intake swirl valve, variable length intake manifold, EGR, turbocharger wastegate control, combined use of MAF/MAP sensors (bikes usually only have a MAP), the list goes on way beyond that if you are talking about super modern engines. For each control system you have several maps/curves/lookup tables, filters, feedback controls, monitoring, diagnosis. And each of those systems affects emissions, torque production, and fuel economy in complicated ways, so controlling them all at once gets really complicated really fast. I can go into more detail in a PM if you are still curious

 

[JeffroGymnast]

Interesting, a good option I think as watching a YouTube tutorial it can also correct out speedo so this could be a one stop shop for our bike

Unfortunately, FT told me there will be no speedo correction for our bike via flashing.

 

[JeffroGymnast]

Just asking in general, t sounds as if there might be a limit to how many times an ecu can be reflashed? Not looking for an exact number, but how high might that number be?

I'll bet if thats true, a powercommander in and of itself would be subject to the same limit???

The number is approximately in the hundreds. It isn't designed to be written to a lot. By contrast, a PCV might just use regular old NAND which can withstand tons of writes. I have no idea for sure.

 

[16suzy1k]

Reading all your discussions are to technical for me, considering that i'm an aircraft technician/mechanic. I will try to contact Dynojet and ask if they have a much improved data for the PCV. The pre-loaded standard mapping can still be improved and see if they have a newer data.

 

[landy10]

Reading all your discussions are to technical for me, considering that i'm an aircraft technician/mechanic. I will try to contact Dynojet and ask if they have a much improved data for the PCV. The pre-loaded standard mapping can still be improved and see if they have a newer data.

The Uk map seems to be different than the US one. In my map they alter the fuelling right from the get go where as the US one doesnt come in till 3000rpm

 

[bking1441]

Well, it looks like the FT software saves the files in a folder called "ECU Images" and they are 521 KB in size.

This is the size of the bin-file inside the ECU of a GSXS.
For a B-King/Hayabusa (and other models) with more maps it is 1mb.
Older/other Suzuki models had/have 256kb, 384kb.

 

[bking1441]

Well, it looks like the FT software saves the files in a folder called "ECU Images" and they are 521 KB in size.

Hey everyone,

I've been in contact with FT-ECU (FlashTune) for the past couple months and they just released a flashing package for our bike. You can either mail your ECU to them to be flashed, or buy a flashing kit that enables you to do it yourself (or a dyno operator) unlimited times.

I'm gonna grab a flashing kit soon, and wanted to let everyone else here know about it. The flash kit is similarly priced to a PCV, but lets you change a lot more (see my attached picture). We have access to throttle-based fuel maps, pressure-based fuel maps, ignition maps (Suzuki reduces power until 4th gear using this), exhaust flap position, fan control, quick-shifting, speed limiter, etc. IMO it looks like the best solution for the snatchy throttle issue.

Here's a link to the website: https://ftecu.com/shop/category/16-17-gsxs1000/

I am not advertising for FT-ECU, I'm just excited that we finally have the right tools to fix our bikes...!

BTW, if you download the software and make an account (totally free), you can load up the stock GSX-S maps and compare them to the software that FT-ECU made for a GSX-S with a slip-on. Pretty cool to poke around inside the ECU.

edit: I added pics of TPS/RPM fuel maps for the stock bike, bike with slip-on, and % comparison. Pretty crazy how much fuel is being added/subtracted at certain points!

Thanks for sharing this

Edit:
Ordered