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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all, new to the forum (and bike) and have a couple questions I'd love some experienced riders to help me out with. first off, a quick history of my riding experience for perspective. riding for 12 yrs with a 250cc sport bike which I still have. picked up a 1400cc cruiser 3 yrs ago and ride both frequently. I picked up a 16 GSXS last week and love the beast. A few things I want to work out but not sure which direction to go too. I'm no racer and don't plan on doing 100+mph on the regular, but love that its there if I want it. I use my bike for fun and even to commute to work a lot.

The original owner cut out the cat and factory exhaust and welded on this small muffler (that I'm not a fan of). so I'm looking to get a full exhaust system.
46085

I know that there's been so-so reviews of the Delkevic system that it doesn't look pretty or produce that much power, but honestly... I'm not looking for MORE power. These bikes are powerful to begin with! I just want clean and smooth. I know its cheaper but I don't think its outright bad...is it? I do know its a 4-1 design as opposed to 4-2-1 so that mean it'll affect my top end more than my mid, but I'm wondering more if my mid will actually suffer?

Also, I noticed that when I'm in low to mid rpms cruising, there's this weird "stutter" of the bike that gives this on/off goes then bogs down, then goes and bogs down, repeatedly. I've spent hours reading posts on this forum and learning about things like power commanders, 02 wideband sensors or the opposite... eliminators, boosterplugs and servo buddys, pair valve removal and block off plate installs.... and its all kinda overwhelming. I would just like a nice [quieter] sounding bike with a more even throttle response in all ranges. I'm more practical and don't see myslef doing 100+mph....at least not regularly lol;). Thanks i advance for any help!
 

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Seems like a few topics to tackle here:

1. You don't like what the previous owner did to the exhaust; it's loud and is (maybe) causing some issues.
2. You want to replace the exhaust with a full system, and you're looking for feedback on what's available and/or has been tried.
3. You have questions about how different exhaust systems impact HP vs torque.
4. You want to resolve the weird stutter the bike has in low-to-mid RPMs.

If I hear ya correctly, you should consider buying a used, stock system. Probably the least expensive route and it's guaranteed to work, and it won't add more power. Not a ton of full system options in the US and the M4 system seems popular. There are others, of course.

Exhaust design is a complex topic but Brock Davidson has some great content on YouTube. There's a series on a project GSX-R worth tuning into (excuse the pun). There's some wisdom buried in this forum on how the torque curve is impacted by the length of the mid pipe, but bigger/smaller diameter headers impact torque too.

The stutter could be a lot of things. Maybe the PO didn't flash the ECU after hacking up the exhaust, which is another reason to consider a stock system. Alternatively, you could send your ECU to Dano's. But you probably don't want to do it twice, so wait until you settle on an exhaust system.

Hope this helps, and that others chime in because mine is just one opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Seems like a few topics to tackle here:

1. You don't like what the previous owner did to the exhaust; it's loud and is (maybe) causing some issues.
2. You want to replace the exhaust with a full system, and you're looking for feedback on what's available and/or has been tried.
3. You have questions about how different exhaust systems impact HP vs torque.
4. You want to resolve the weird stutter the bike has in low-to-mid RPMs.

If I hear ya correctly, you should consider buying a used, stock system. Probably the least expensive route and it's guaranteed to work, and it won't add more power. Not a ton of full system options in the US and the M4 system seems popular. There are others, of course.

Exhaust design is a complex topic but Brock Davidson has some great content on YouTube. There's a series on a project GSX-R worth tuning into (excuse the pun). There's some wisdom buried in this forum on how the torque curve is impacted by the length of the mid pipe, but bigger/smaller diameter headers impact torque too.

The stutter could be a lot of things. Maybe the PO didn't flash the ECU after hacking up the exhaust, which is another reason to consider a stock system. Alternatively, you could send your ECU to Dano's. But you probably don't want to do it twice, so wait until you settle on an exhaust system.

Hope this helps, and that others chime in because mine is just one opinion.
Thanks for your advice! and i've always been one to love a good pun. ;). well after more reading of older posts i think i've come up with this as a plan. keep my stock headers and the PO left plenty of metal after the servo valve
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for me to cut the rest off and install one of these mid pipes...
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and then a nice mid range price slip on of my choosing.

Then dropping in a hi-flow air filter and removing the restrictor panel inside the airbox. Finally send to dano's for an ECU flash and call it a day. I emailed them and they did mention to me that they would be disabling the O2 sensor and servo valve so i can just unplug those. he would also be disabling the PAIR valve so i would need to block those off tho. All things considered, does that sound like a solid plan or am i possibly missing something? thanks again for your advice/help.
 

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the stock box muffler works well, it in combo with the cat converter are the main muffling components, without those, a normal slip on muffler will struggle to quieten the volume coming from the engine unless its very choked up via a decibel killer, which in itself will hinder midrange and above power
 

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oh, by the way, that is an abortion of a job the previous owner did, too short an exhaust dulls the power output, and that short a muffler wont do ****, so im not surprised your having both noise / fueling issues
 

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You mentioned wanting your exhaust to be quieter. No full exhaust system will be quiet, nor will the factory header with decat pipe and aftermarket slip-on, but I suspect they will be a bit more quiet when compared to the set-up you have now, which is terrible. You could always choose a longer muffler instead of the more popular shorty cans if you want less noise. The added benefit to the longer can is the potential to have a smoother idle. Some guys end up with a surging/fluctuating idle speed after a flash and some don't. Some of the ones who have that issue have solved it by increasing exhaust backpressure by using a DB killer or longer muffler. I'm running a full exhaust with a short Akrapovic slip-on, along with a Dano's flash and thankfully I have no problem with an erratic idle. That issue seems to be hit or miss.

Having Dano's flash your ECU will definitely sort out the on/off throttle response and bogging you're experiencing at low-mid RPM. It will also help with the needed fueling adjustments after installing the decat pipe and aftermarket slip-on. You don't have to have him disable the PAIR valve, exhaust valve, and oxygen sensor. Those are optional, but I did disable all three and am happy with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You mentioned wanting your exhaust to be quieter. No full exhaust system will be quiet, nor will the factory header with decat pipe and aftermarket slip-on, but I suspect they will be a bit more quiet when compared to the set-up you have now, which is terrible. You could always choose a longer muffler instead of the more popular shorty cans if you want less noise. The added benefit to the longer can is the potential to have a smoother idle. Some guys end up with a surging/fluctuating idle speed after a flash and some don't. Some of the ones who have that issue have solved it by increasing exhaust backpressure by using a DB killer or longer muffler. I'm running a full exhaust with a short Akrapovic slip-on, along with a Dano's flash and thankfully I have no problem with an erratic idle. That issue seems to be hit or miss.

Having Dano's flash your ECU will definitely sort out the on/off throttle response and bogging you're experiencing at low-mid RPM. It will also help with the needed fueling adjustments after installing the decat pipe and aftermarket slip-on. You don't have to have him disable the PAIR valve, exhaust valve, and oxygen sensor. Those are optional, but I did disable all three and am happy with the results.
Thanks for everyone's help. And yes, abortion of a job is exact lol. I ended up going with a shorter slip-on with a hotbodies growler. it unfortunately DID sound just as loud as the ****ty exhaust PO welded on and after the ECU flash i did have very noticeable unsteady idle. FORTUNATELY, I added the DB killer and it did stabilize the idle and tuned down the volume a lot as well, so win-win. Bike is looking much better now and running amazing. night and day!

BEFORE
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AFTER
46278


I also installed a set of T-rex lowering links and dropped her 1.25". Didn't like being on my toes when coming to a stop, lol. Now i just need to get rid of this crappy rear shock and i'll be complete... at least for now. Out on the freeway today and had a couple scary moments doing 80+mph and hit a bump and felt like i was gonna get bucked off.....:cautious:
 

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Thanks for everyone's help. And yes, abortion of a job is exact lol. I ended up going with a shorter slip-on with a hotbodies growler. it unfortunately DID sound just as loud as the ****ty exhaust PO welded on and after the ECU flash i did have very noticeable unsteady idle. FORTUNATELY, I added the DB killer and it did stabilize the idle and tuned down the volume a lot as well, so win-win. Bike is looking much better now and running amazing. night and day!

BEFORE
View attachment 46277

AFTER
View attachment 46278

I also installed a set of T-rex lowering links and dropped her 1.25". Didn't like being on my toes when coming to a stop, lol. Now i just need to get rid of this crappy rear shock and i'll be complete... at least for now. Out on the freeway today and had a couple scary moments doing 80+mph and hit a bump and felt like i was gonna get bucked off.....:cautious:
Is the only thing attaching that slip-on to the bike those two springs? I've always looked at the pics of the Hotbodies exhaust and wondered where the hanger was, if there even was one. Seems like it would bounce around quite a bit when riding with only the springs there. It does look WAY better then before! I'd like to think that while it may still be loud, it might have a better sound then it did with the previous "muffler" that was installed.

Also, lowering the rear of the bike by 1.25" will seriously throw off the bike's original rake/geometry. That's a considerable drop and will have a negative effect on handling without countering it by making corrections to the front end, as well. If you're not interested in retaining the bike's positive handling characteristics it won't matter, but it is something to consider if you are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Is the only thing attaching that slip-on to the bike those two springs? I've always looked at the pics of the Hotbodies exhaust and wondered where the hanger was, if there even was one. Seems like it would bounce around quite a bit when riding with only the springs there. It does look WAY better then before! I'd like to think that while it may still be loud, it might have a better sound then it did with the previous "muffler" that was installed.

Also, lowering the rear of the bike by 1.25" will seriously throw off the bike's original rake/geometry. That's a considerable drop and will have a negative effect on handling without countering it by making corrections to the front end, as well. If you're not interested in retaining the bike's positive handling characteristics it won't matter, but it is something to consider if you are.
No that was a pic taken before i finished the install. This is it afterwards.
46282


I made a bracket to also hold it from passenger peg so its being supported there and the oem hanger on the rider footpeg....
46283

And you're right. MUCH better sound. But with db killer really quieted it down a bit. Im very happy with it.

With regards to lowering. How complicated is it to adjust front end to match the drop i did in the rear?
 

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No that was a pic taken before i finished the install. This is it afterwards.
View attachment 46282

I made a bracket to also hold it from passenger peg so its being supported there and the oem hanger on the rider footpeg....
View attachment 46283
And you're right. MUCH better sound. But with db killer really quieted it down a bit. Im very happy with it.

With regards to lowering. How complicated is it to adjust front end to match the drop i did in the rear?
Ah, good idea. Looks like it's much better supported with the hanger that attaches to the passenger peg. Before it looked like it was just floating unsupported.

And I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done to the front end in order to balance out the lowering you did to the rear. I'd think the front would need to be lowered by the same amount in order to keep the factory rake, but that's not possible because our forks are tapered, so raising the forks in the triple clamp in order to lower the front end by 1.25" to match the rear wouldn't work. I'd post in the suspension subforum and see what others more experienced with suspension modifications recommend you should do to help balance the bike out again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ah, good idea. Looks like it's much better supported with the hanger that attaches to the passenger peg. Before it looked like it was just floating unsupported.

And I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done to the front end in order to balance out the lowering you did to the rear. I'd think the front would need to be lowered by the same amount in order to keep the factory rake, but that's not possible because our forks are tapered, so raising the forks in the triple clamp in order to lower the front end by 1.25" to match the rear wouldn't work. I'd post in the suspension subforum and see what others more experienced with suspension modifications recommend you should do to help balance the bike out again.
Oh ok. Will do. Thanks!
 
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No that was a pic taken before i finished the install. This is it afterwards.
View attachment 46282

I made a bracket to also hold it from passenger peg so its being supported there and the oem hanger on the rider footpeg....
View attachment 46283
And you're right. MUCH better sound. But with db killer really quieted it down a bit. Im very happy with it.

With regards to lowering. How complicated is it to adjust front end to match the drop i did in the rear?
Yes i would also like to know about the lowering link --
 
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