GSXS 1000 Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1


It just might be...

Unless you live in a hole you might have heard that Suzuki (finally!!!) debuted a new GSX-R1000 L7 at EICMA 2016. It's been some 11 years since the then new K5 Gixxer debuted.


Suzuki says the new GSX-R1000 is the lightest, most powerful, best handling and highest spec'd bike they've ever built.

  • All-new 999cc engine
  • 200bhp | 82ftlb | 200kg (est)
  • All-new aluminium chassis
  • Showa BFF fork and BFRC shock
  • 10-level traction control
  • Quickshifter/autoblipper
What's nice about the latest effort from Suzuki is that they went at the sportbike from a mechanical standpoint. They aim to be King of the Sportbikes once again and instead of loading the bike up with trick electronics to mask flaws, Suzuki turned instead to engineering solutions.

So confident are they in their work, Suzuki says the Gixxer doesn't get an IMU like the ZX-10 or R1 because the bike is so good, riders don't need one.

In fact one of the coolest features to come from the concept is the debut of Variable Valve Timing, a first for the segment. Which couples with some slick solutions developed for the GP bike.

The Suzuki Racing Finger valve train follower rocker arm improves valve control and pushes the bike into higher rpms. The Suzuki Exhaust Tuning-Alpha (SET-A) and Suzuki Top Feed Injector (S-TFI) systems combine with SRF to make what Suzuki call their Broad Power System. This was the ethos behind the GP bike, and the result is strong, linear acceleration throughout the rev range.

The new GSXR is expected in stores by mid-2016. Its feasible that by this time next year Suzuki will have shown us a new GSX-S1000 based around the new L7...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
I dont think so.

Based on Japanese motorcycles it was always common to see technology trickle down into models that were not their flagship models.

Lots of dirt bike examples, but lets use Kawasakis original concours 1000 as an example. That bike was in production for over 10 yrs with very little change. Their concours 14 is not far behind. SV650. V strom 650, 1000.

Suzuki could have used any past gsxr motor for this bike and choose the 05-06...They skipped the 07-08 and the 09-15 was slightly different, too. Production cost would have been about the same.

Why? Being cheap? Making a bad bike? No. The 05-06 was the last gsxr engine designed to be a good street engine. After 06, things became very track focused. Meaning lousy low to mid power, with a potential for a lot of top. Just what we dont need. I think the new yamaha mt 10 will show this to be true, again.

VVt? We saw that on the concours 14. I think, in this case, it will be as much for emissions as power. The standards are getting very hard to meet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Suzuki could have used any past gsxr motor for this bike and choose the 05-06...They skipped the 07-08 and the 09-15 was slightly different, too. Production cost would have been about the same.

The 05-06 was the last gsxr engine designed to be a good street engine. After 06, things became very track focused. Meaning lousy low to mid power, with a potential for a lot of top. Just what we dont need.

They used the 05/06 because it didn't have the dual exhaust with the added emissions crap like the 07/08. Which = more expense and more weight.

Also, the 05/06 had a cable clutch vs the more expensive and higher maintenance of a hydraulic clutch. Which= more expense passed to the consumer as well.

The 07/08 also has the 3 mode selector for different riding conditions. Which means a more advanced wiring harness, ECU, switches, etc...which adds more cost to the engine/bike. Which would have been passed on to the GSXR buyer.

And, I haven't found any info showing the 05/06 had more torque than the 07/08. I could be wrong, but if the 05/06 had more torque it was very minimal and a butt dyno would never know it.

The 05/06 was simply a cheaper engine to put back into production. Suzuki obviously was trying to keep the price down on the GSXS for us as consumers.

I've owned every GSXR since '92, except for the last 2 yrs. Not that it matters, just a footnote that's all. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
hi there dose anyone no where to get those fluro rim stickers from? they would look good on the naked blue model can any one leave me a link please?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
They used the 05/06 because it didn't have the dual exhaust with the added emissions crap like the 07/08. Which = more expense and more weight.

Also, the 05/06 had a cable clutch vs the more expensive and higher maintenance of a hydraulic clutch. Which= more expense passed to the consumer as well.

The 07/08 also has the 3 mode selector for different riding conditions. Which means a more advanced wiring harness, ECU, switches, etc...which adds more cost to the engine/bike. Which would have been passed on to the GSXR buyer.

And, I haven't found any info showing the 05/06 had more torque than the 07/08. I could be wrong, but if the 05/06 had more torque it was very minimal and a butt dyno would never know it.

The 05/06 was simply a cheaper engine to put back into production. Suzuki obviously was trying to keep the price down on the GSXS for us as consumers.

I've owned every GSXR since '92, except for the last 2 yrs. Not that it matters, just a footnote that's all. :D

An exhaust system bolts on to an engine. Its not designed into it. Same story with the clutch. Also, if this was true, how did this new, budget priced gsxs end up with traction control that is not available on any gsxr? This model has far more sophisticated electronics than a 07-08 gsxr. We wont even mention the abs version.

You lost credibility when you thought a simple 3 mode electronic system was more sophisticated than one with traction control and abs.

If you rode an 05 and compared it to a 07-08 or 09-2014 gsxr 1000, you'd notice the low- midrange advantage of the 05. A 30 second google search will show this as well.

The 05 was not as good for the race teams that needed 200 plus hp, but way better for the street.

Also, the latest, 09-15 gsxr 1000 uses a cable clutch, so they could have used that base engine right? Why not? It has the 4 into 1 pipe and cable clutch that is the deal breaker?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
An exhaust system bolts on to an engine. Its not designed into it. Same story with the clutch. Also, if this was true, how did this new, budget priced gsxs end up with traction control that is not available on any gsxr? This model has far more sophisticated electronics than a 07-08 gsxr. We wont even mention the abs version.

You lost credibility when you thought a simple 3 mode electronic system was more sophisticated than one with traction control and abs.

If you rode an 05 and compared it to a 07-08 or 09-2014 gsxr 1000, you'd notice the low- midrange advantage of the 05. A 30 second google search will show this as well.

The 05 was not as good for the race teams that needed 200 plus hp, but way better for the street.

Also, the latest, 09-15 gsxr 1000 uses a cable clutch, so they could have used that base engine right? Why not? It has the 4 into 1 pipe and cable clutch that is the deal breaker?
Where did I say the 3 mode selector was more sophisticated than TC and ABS? The GSXS has TC and ABS because it's simply a sign of the times. Most big cc bikes come standard with that now. Suzuki had to offer those goodies to compete with the field.

The power of a race team matters why? I'm a licensed road racer with WERA since '94. Does that matter? You say the 05 was 'way' better for the street...why?, because of 2 ft/lbs of torque that no human would be able to feel? Not even the most sophisticated butt-dyno could pick up on that.

The GSXS has what, maybe 140 hp. The 05 made 155-160 actual rear wheel hp, bone stock. So the 05 motor has been detuned for streetability. Great. Fantastic. Suzuki would have done that with the 07-15 motors too.
The 2 ft/lbs difference in torque between the 05/06 and 07/08 cannot be felt by a butt dyno. Maybe, maybe on a graph a difference can be seen, back then, 10 yrs ago, with less sophisticated dynos.

Suzuki didn't use the 09-15 engine because it is muuch more high strung than the 05-08 and is not what they were looking for in their new comfy street sled. Theres 3000 rpm difference between the 05 and 15.

I don't know all the engineering details of the internals of the engines. I can only surmise that Suzuki felt that the great , less hp'd, but torquey 05 motor, with single exhaust, no added electronics, a simple cable clutch set up, made more economical sense to put into the GSXS in order to keep the price down for the consumers and compete in the market. Did I say the 05 was a great motor? It was simply, more simple than the next 10yrs worth of GSXR 1000 motors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
So, the dynos are now more sophisticated now?

I dont quite know where aboot 30% of your info is coming from. Much of it is truth based, but the other third is way out there. When Dobek designed the dynojet dyno , its point was to not be sophisticated and expensive. It was a way to put one of these in every shop. To argue sophistication, in that product? The Story Behind the Dynojet Chassis Dyno - The Truth Meter - Hot Rod Magazine

If you read any test with th e05-06 vs the 07-08, you will see it lost low to mid in exchange for top end. The same would be true with the 05 vs the current model.

If Suzuki had wanted cheap, old technology, why no just go back to the 01?

This engine was hand picked for its purpose. It made a better base engine for what they were trying to accomplish.

Your exhaust comments are strange, and lack a knowledge base a person really cant argue with. The 2 mufflers on the 07-08 was never something Suzuki really wanted. The reason for the change is out there, and was explained in every initial impression of the then new 07 bike. Think about it. Why would a company go to such lengths as to use titanium in an exhaust system, then add 5-10lbs using a second muffler? This change also screwed their wsbk team as they , too had to use dual mufflers. The answers out there....I'll explain it in a pm if you need it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I dont think so.

Based on Japanese motorcycles it was always common to see technology trickle down into models that were not their flagship models.

Lots of dirt bike examples, but lets use Kawasakis original concours 1000 as an example. That bike was in production for over 10 yrs with very little change. Their concours 14 is not far behind. SV650. V strom 650, 1000.

Suzuki could have used any past gsxr motor for this bike and choose the 05-06...They skipped the 07-08 and the 09-15 was slightly different, too. Production cost would have been about the same.

Why? Being cheap? Making a bad bike? No. The 05-06 was the last gsxr engine designed to be a good street engine. After 06, things became very track focused. Meaning lousy low to mid power, with a potential for a lot of top. Just what we dont need. I think the new yamaha mt 10 will show this to be true, again.

VVt? We saw that on the concours 14. I think, in this case, it will be as much for emissions as power. The standards are getting very hard to meet.
The new motor features VVT which would allow them the best of both worlds, plenty at the bottom and a stonking top end...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
The new motor features VVT which would allow them the best of both worlds, plenty at the bottom and a stonking top end...
I hope they do it, because right now I have a concours 14. It has vvt.

It is fast. It is smooth. It is also about as exciting as my Honda FG100. It will be funny if you click on the link. Work safe link, but it gives you an idea of what its power delivery is like.

http://www.hondalawnparts.com/PublicMedia/GetClientMedia/30853

Again, I cant complain. Your on the freeway and it just feel like everyone else is slow. You curse the govt for not having 150mph speed limits.

Maybe this is whats needed for racing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
I dont think so.

Based on Japanese motorcycles it was always common to see technology trickle down into models that were not their flagship models.

Lots of dirt bike examples, but lets use Kawasakis original concours 1000 as an example. That bike was in production for over 10 yrs with very little change. Their concours 14 is not far behind. SV650. V strom 650, 1000.

Suzuki could have used any past gsxr motor for this bike and choose the 05-06...They skipped the 07-08 and the 09-15 was slightly different, too. Production cost would have been about the same.

Why? Being cheap? Making a bad bike? No. The 05-06 was the last gsxr engine designed to be a good street engine. After 06, things became very track focused. Meaning lousy low to mid power, with a potential for a lot of top. Just what we dont need. I think the new yamaha mt 10 will show this to be true, again.

VVt? We saw that on the concours 14. I think, in this case, it will be as much for emissions as power. The standards are getting very hard to meet.
i would like to add to this, in agreement.

Our bike is intended to be naked sports / torque sport. there is absolute no need (in my opinion) to try and ride it like its a gsxr if you do, you bought the wrong bike it isnt intended for that. The gsxs needs to compete with the ducati monster bmw s1000 and so on. The longer stroke of the k5 makes it more ideal for torque and the gsxs also has a different cam for the same reason. If you have ever ridden both or had both next to the other idling you can tell the difference straight away. Not to mention the seat of the pants difference whilst riding them.

On a side note i think the mt10 is the second ugliest thing i have seen in a while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
If you guys get time, go back and google a test of the then new 2004 gsxr 1000. Price on it , then, was 10,599.

Keep in mind, thats been 12 years. This new bike is slightly heavier, but most of that is due to exhaust changes they have had to do to be legal. Otherwise, the two compare rather well.

The modern exhaust would cost more to make. New electronics are probably cheaper, but offer much more. Brakes on the new bike are superior.

It does make sense that you might see some thin paint and a poor rear shock, doesn't it? Otherwise, you'd be a lot closer to14-15k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
something like this?
 

Attachments

1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top