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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Nice work!

Was the spacing of your throttle bodies the same as a 2006 or 2007 GSXR?
They are spaced like the 07 throttle bodies. Also the exhaust spigots are the bigger 1.75" diameter too, so it's the 'old K5' with all of the later model dimensions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Welp, finally got a chance to ride it. It's pretty far from complete at this point but it is technically road capable. I'll just say this...it is a pain in the ass to do all of this without hacking up the fairings. I'm not really pleased with the fitment of the cold pipes to the turbo, so I may be changing that up. My plans for air filter placement didn't work out as planned, so I will need to fab up an air filter housing in conjunction with the fairing connector in front of the turbo. Other than that, the only thing unexpected so far is an FI light illuminated. This happened after the first startup last weekend with no power commander hooked up, just the 'O2 optimizer' plugged in. I realize it isn't designed to work alone but as far as the ECM is concerned, nothing else was changed. I assumed it might be a fault that would clear up during the test ride but no such luck. Does anybody know a way to actually get the information off of the bike? I read on a GSXR page that they could do a paperclip trick and make the gauge cluster display the fault code instead of just FI, but I could not find anywhere to do the same on the GSXS. Any info would be much appreciated. FI light aside, it rides just fine. Butt dyno tells me the fueling is off, and the autotune-provided AFR is reporting that to be true. Very rich in the lower revs. Since it was richer, I decided to get into boost a bit. Stays fairly rich until about 6000rpms and then leans out in a hurry. Makes about 3psi thus far with the 3psi spring. More to come next weekend, as per usual.

Walkaround idle video and some more pictures with some attempted close-ups to show how tightly packed the front of the bike is.

https://youtu.be/wDcIYI1VNq4








 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Welp, finally got a chance to ride it. It's pretty far from complete at this point but it is technically road capable. I'll just say this...it is a pain in the ass to do all of this without hacking up the fairings. I'm not really pleased with the fitment of the cold pipes to the turbo, so I may be changing that up. My plans for air filter placement didn't work out as planned, so I will need to fab up an air filter housing in conjunction with the fairing connector in front of the turbo. Other than that, the only thing unexpected so far is an FI light illuminated. This happened after the first startup last weekend with no power commander hooked up, just the 'O2 optimizer' plugged in. I realize it isn't designed to work alone but as far as the ECM is concerned, nothing else was changed. I assumed it might be a fault that would clear up during the test ride but no such luck. Does anybody know a way to actually get the information off of the bike? I read on a GSXR page that they could do a paperclip trick and make the gauge cluster display the fault code instead of just FI, but I could not find anywhere to do the same on the GSXS. Any info would be much appreciated. FI light aside, it rides just fine. Butt dyno tells me the fueling is off, and the autotune-provided AFR is reporting that to be true. Very rich in the lower revs. Since it was richer, I decided to get into boost a bit. Stays fairly rich until about 6000rpms and then leans out in a hurry. Makes about 3psi thus far with the 3psi spring. More to come next weekend, as per usual.

Walkaround idle video and some more pictures with some attempted close-ups to show how tightly packed the front of the bike is.

https://youtu.be/wDcIYI1VNq4








 

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Oil changes going to be a PITA with all that stuff crammed in there? You have some mad skills. I don't know the first thing about turbos. With all the plumbing so short compared to a car, does that mean virtually no turbo lag? Also, what is the scavenge pumps purpose?
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Actually my first oil change was fairly difficult in stock form, so with the oil filter relocator I can't imagine this will be any more difficult. The filter points straight down now so I just need to unbolt the scavenge pump to get to it. The lag is still noticeable, but I only put about 5 miles on it today. It only reaches the 3psi target wastegate pressure over 5000rpms, so the engine just isn't producing enough exhaust to drive the turbo at city cruise rpm...sort of makes the lag seem worse than it is. If I whack the throttle open from 8000rpm, it should be a different story. The scavenge pump just returns oil from the turbo to the engine. You don't want any pressure on the turbo shaft seals themselves; oil needs to lubricate the bearings and drain through unrestricted. Without the pump, hydrostatic pressure from the oil would pressurize the return line and push oil past the seals and into the intake and exhaust.
 

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With that much effort I think you should get an OBD-reader from Healtech. Not expencive, and much better than the "paper-clip-method" interpreting codes shown in dash.
I would guess one sensor is not working or more likely the EXVA have been removed =error-code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
With that much effort I think you should get an OBD-reader from Healtech. Not expencive, and much better than the "paper-clip-method" interpreting codes shown in dash.
I would guess one sensor is not working or more likely the EXVA have been removed =error-code.
I can't imagine the exhaust valve causing a fault since there is no position sensor on the valve itself. No feedback=no awareness of any problem. The O2 optimizer I have less confidence in though...
 

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I can't imagine the exhaust valve causing a fault since there is no position sensor on the valve itself. No feedback=no awareness of any problem. The O2 optimizer I have less confidence in though...
The position sensor is in the motor.

Healtech also makes an adapter/connector for this=no fault code in ECU(MIL).
(I use that on my bike)
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
The position sensor is in the motor.

Healtech also makes an adapter/connector for this=no fault code in ECU(MIL).
(I use that on my bike)
It makes sense that there would be a sensor in the actuator to prevent smashing the motor stops. But I was thinking since the actuator cycles on startup, there may be a feature that checks cable health. If the motor actually hits the stops, it might conclude that the cables have broken or someone ripped the exhaust valve out to install a turbo lol. I may have to snag one of those healtech units. Nickles and dimes!
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I've made some limited efforts to set up the 'base calibration' for the bike in Power Commander given what I think I can expect from the modifications. The bike is currently configured with the primary fuel control unit, ignition unit, autotune and POD-300. I've added a MAP sensor, hobbs switch (functioning as a MAP switch for overboost protection), a thumb switch for the autotune switch, and a clutch switch for the rev limiter/2 step. I weighed my options between Power Commander 5, Woolich, Flashtune and others and decided that the PC would be the best fit for a turbo application. While I'd love to have control over the secondary throttle valve, exhaust valve, actual fuel/spark calibration and diagnostics and other widgets, I still wouldn't have access to any boost-related options. If this was a supercharger project where boost pressure has a stronger correlation to RPM and throttle position, Woolich might have been possible. But since turbo boost in a transient scenario can change with RPM and throttle position fixed, Power Commander was the best option. The most critical feature I'm missing which I couldn't find available in any option was fuel and spark control with change in temperature. I'm assuming that the ECU calibration should be able to modify fuel and spark based on IAT, but the PC is blind to it. With this, I'll just have to plan for worst case scenario.

For fueling, I took the fuel 'MAP' (hate that convention) on the PC and added some modifications to it in excel and pasted it back over to the PC. The addition of the turbo and manifold and removal of long tube headers and exhaust valve have some compounding effects on fueling across the entire rev range out of boost. The dominating effect is the long tube headers that provide scavenging which is critical on an engine with a high specific output. Without the majority of the scavenging effect, I am expecting to have to lean out the fuel mixture significantly across most of the rev range due to the residual inert gases in the cylinder that are not 'sucked out' by a departing exhaust pulse. The leftover exhaust displaces fresh incoming air, so the mix goes rich. I certainly confirmed this on my test ride, as it was almost constantly rich at every rev range in vacuum. The secondary effect is the loss of the exhaust valve. In itself, not having the valve results in lower exhaust back pressure which allows exhaust gas to depart the cylinder earlier instead of exerting more force on the piston toward the end of the power stroke. Less residual exhaust gas in the cylinder should mean more air is allowed to come take its place in the subsequent intake stroke and effectively lean out the mixture, but without the scavenging during valve overlap this effect gets obscured. So overall, it appears that it needs to be leaned out basically everywhere across the alpha-N portion of the fueling. The following is the changes that I am anticipating are necessary plus the original changes from Dynojet.



For the portion of the throttle range 10% and below that doesn't use alpha-N but rather conventional volumetric efficiency, I will attempt to calibrate fueling only roughly, and by hand. The Suzuki ECU utilizes a totally different surface below 10% throttle with air pressure instead of throttle position on the x-axis of the surface, so chasing fueling errors in this range is sort of chasing your tail. As I mentioned before, this is a scenario where pressure can change at the same throttle position and RPM. I do not want to extend my MAP sensor to cover this range and lose the alpha-N portion of the control, so I will simply make this section as lean as possible in the alpha-N surface without causing driveability issues.

The next challenge is maintaining this bike's exceptional fuel economy while allowing a smooth transition between what was previously a closed loop 'emissions' operating range and the power-oriented open loop range. Judging from torque and fueling transitions from dyno results on this website Suzuki GSX-S1000 F Power Commander | Superbike Magazine, anything over 8000rpm is open loop. In all graphs, fueling departs from stoichiometric and targets a richer mix above this particular RPM threshold. Dynojet UK was also kind enough to show graphs at different throttle positions which reveal that Suzuki uses a pressure threshold as well for closed loop operating range. Above a certain MAP, it is also exclusively open loop. So I've taken this information and set up a 'cruise range triangle' in the alpha-N control section. Throttle snatch hasn't been a huge issue for me with the throttle tamer, so I'm OK keeping it lean in this range like it was stock. Quick throttle openings should move it into a richer range anyway, so as long as the PC reacts quick enough the snatch should still be somewhat mitigated. I don't intend on keeping this surface active on the final revision of the power commander calibration, but here is how the autotune is currently set up on the alpha-N surface with the cruise triangle outlined.



I will be disabling this feature in the end, but the goal now with it enabled is to capture as much data as possible and get a clean open loop fueling surface set up that allows a smooth transition into boost. Fuel in the pressure surface is essentially just an estimate of compensation for the effect that boost has on volumetric efficiency. Adding boost has a very mild effect on VE due to a greater pressure differential across the intake valve which allows for slightly more intake port ram effect in addition to a lower delay time to initiate air movement into the cylinder after the valve opens. The numbers I've got in this surface are an over-estimate.



Here is the current autotune pressure surface. Without utilizing any combustion analysis, I tend to prefer to richen the mix slightly as boost increases. Again probably an over-estimate, but these values are easily changed later. I am using two separate .pvm files to set this up, so ignore that the axis values aren't the same here. They will eventually end up matching the fuel-pressure surface. I've got the axis set to slightly overlap the alpha-N surface in the vacuum range (down to -2psi) so I can compensate for any potential lean transients that I may experience when going from off to on-throttle at higher RPM. The Suzuki ECU can control fueling for a transient up to 0psi manifold vacuum, but snapping the throttle open at 9000rpm could potentially result in temporary leanness moving into the boost range. The surface overlap will combat that issue by initiating fuel enrichment sooner. It isn't the ideal way to fix the problem, but PC doesn't have access to any transient fuel features, not that I would expect it to.



Ignition surface in the boost range. Not sure if this is much of an over-estimate not knowing the actual ignition timing values, but 7° of spark retard near peak torque with 6psi at this engine's dynamic compression ratio should be pretty close to where I need it.




That's about all I've got for now. I will be adding more refinements as I look through more torque curves on these bikes to see if I can extract any more information. I have not yet made any changes to the ignition surface out of boost as that will be more towards the end when I am attempting to make an approach on MBT in the cruise range. Without the exhaust valve, I'm sure the bike will suffer a loss in fuel economy without additional ignition timing adjustments. If this hasn't totally bored anybody reading, I can update when I start modifying that surface later on. I've never calibrated a turbo bike before so no matter what happens, this should be pretty interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
bking1441, that Healtech unit was the ticket...no more FI light :)

It seems I've made a poor assumption regarding the function of the pressure fuel surface in the power commander. The documentation is a bit ambiguous as to how it really works. There are two ways the surface could add fuel: either it modifies fueling based on gauge pressure or it modifies fueling based on absolute pressure. Given that the Suzuki ECU already modifies fuel based on the IAP sensor reading to assist the alpha-N controls in producing more accurate fueling, it didn't make sense that the PC pressure surface would utilize absolute pressure. Suzuki doesn't use conventional speed density fuel control on these bikes for a good reason, so it would be a poor control strategy to overlay speed density control onto alpha-N. So I figured the pressure surface had to use gauge pressure. My assumption was that it sampled barometric pressure on startup (and possibly used a background baro learning feature) and used this as the 'zero' point on the pressure axis on the pressure fuel surface. MAP-baro=gauge pressure. But this is NOT the case. Key on engine off showed about 14.5psi absolute pressure at my elevation. The pressure fuel surface utilizes absolute pressure...so this causes additional problems, particularly because I have a Colorado Rockies motorcycle ride planned this summer. I-70 through the mountains crests 11,000 feet elevation where, depending on weather, barometric pressure can drop as low as 70kpa or around 10psia. Now since I have to use the absolute pressure surface in PC and the ECU is already removing fuel based on pressure...this means that I won't have any additional fuel delivered until I hit 4.5psi of boost at 10psia. The autotune would pick up the error over time, but it wouldn't be fast enough to save the engine from going lean and breaking stuff on a quick transition. So my only option is to shift the values on the pressure axis in the fuel and ignition surfaces any time I change altitude. Garbage! Had the surface utilized a gauge pressure axis, the PC would add fuel any time it went into boost, not just at sea level. Granted, you'd need to know baro...but its a small price to pay on a motorcycle that is not speed density.

Updated pressure surfaces to account for this...





I've also changed the fuel surface values as well to account for a drop in effective fuel pressure as boost rises. The fuel system is completely unmodified, so at some point I'll hit 100% injector duty cycle. Injector overhead gets used up extremely fast with boost on a returnless fuel system and I don't know much about this fuel system at all, so it remains to be seen if I can even get this thing up to 6psi. I was only able to tool around with the power commander for probably 5 minutes this weekend, but got the idle dialed in...needs 6% less fuel at idle to achieve 14.6 AFR. Since OEs tend to err on the side of rich, this could be completely normal. Or it could be due to the reduction in scavenging leaving residual exhaust gas in the cylinder...hard to say.

Did a little reworking to the intake pipes... Goal was to get the left side fairing to fit more easily. I had intended to make pie-sectioned bends, but they turned out to be a little more like man-sized pieces of pie. A friend who is watching the build said they look like crap, and he's right...but I've always been more function over form. And they'll be hidden behind the fairing. I'm not too concerned about air flow through the sharply-bent intake because it will assist in preventing boost creep. The fairings fit great now. Got the reworked pipes mocked up with a mangled mini filter, new one on order. Also made an attempt to put together a new front fairing connector/turbo-filter water shield but forgot to account for the little spot at the bottom where the fairing has a little notch in it. I didn't install it completely, but you can see there's a nice little hole on both sides....so I get to do this again lol. Once its finished correctly, it will be powder coated. Couple more pipes to weld up and that's all for this week.








 

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Discussion Starter · #53 · (Edited)
Welp, good news and bad news. Good news is I put about 150 miles on the bike this weekend without breaking down or so much as needing to use a tool to fix anything. Though not totally finished, I would consider it road worthy now. Bad news is its not making any more power, due in no small part to the initial engine cal being very conservative. I've kept it fairly rich and pulled out spark because I really don't know what this engine is going to want. However looking at the data I pulled off of the POD-300, the real issue looks to be the engine maxing out the little air filter once I start crossing 8500rpm. It makes about 2.5psi of boost on the 3psi spring but drops off to about 1.5psi by redline. Not totally surprisin as it is a temporary filter I intended to use for shaking the bike down, but its still a little disappointing as the top end feels exactly the same. However the boost creep I was anticipating should be a non-issue now, which is great. Between the poor filter flow and it consequently pushing up turbo drive pressure and stopping up exhaust gas in the cylinder, it makes sense that the top end isn't improved. Data snapshot from WinPEP:




The mid range definitely feels a little more snappy now. To my surprise, there is absolutely NO lag to speak of on this thing. I found it going into boost at 18% throttle and 2700rpm. Highway cruising at 5000rpm, whack the throttle open and the time delay to max boost is imperceptible; the gauge needle immediately goes to 2-3psi.

I didn't finish the front fairing connector this weekend as I wanted to get out and ride it, so it just has a simple bracket to keep the fairings in place while riding. Good thing I didn't too, as I may want to rethink the whole air filter/front end strategy now. I'll need to plan for a filter that is significantly larger which will be a challenge in itself. Overall I have a lot of refinement to do, but its nice to be able to finally ride it. Couple pics after a quick wash...still shines up pretty nice despite having endured around 200 hours of wrenching and fabrication.









 

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Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
Got a decent crowd out riding today. Went down to a grand opening of a new Triumph dealer to check out some bikes and have some free BBQ. Plenty of people checking out all the bikes in attendance but nary a witness of the turbo. Most people just walked by. Must be hidden pretty well!




Also molested the air filter a bit since the new one doesn't arrive until next week. This alone solved most of my boost drop issue. Now it falls off less than 0.5psi from peak boost to redline, so it's definitely an air filter problem. And the difference is very noticeable on the butt dyno. I have material to fab up a new slightly larger intake pipe but I may not bother if it's this sensitive to changes at the filter itself. Looks like crap for sure, but functional enough to keep me on the road.






Today and tomorrow I'm working on a new front fairing connector to help protect the turbo and filter from dirt and debris. I'm also looking into a switch from the Suzuki recommended 10w40 oil to an equivalent 10w50. Given the lack of an oil cooler and therefore no way to maintain the hot oil viscosity that Suzuki intended, I think I'll be better off with the thicker oil. I tilted the bike upright to get a look at oil level and it looked pretty thin in the sight glass. Pretty unscientific way to make that determination, but more viscosity when the oil is hot has never let me down before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I replaced the air filter yesterday with a larger K&N piece. Aside from the compressor efficiency falling hard at the current boost level, it is maintaining pressure well now. She still doesn't like building boost whacking the throttle at 10k RPM but that's to be expected with such a low boost target and a high NA horsepower engine. That's also exacerbated by the large rich transients. Power output is all over the place. At times it feels pretty aggressive, and other times it feels slower than stock. Every time I tilt my head down to look at the POD while in boost pulling through gears, its rich. Fairly certain I'm dealing with multiple issues at once all blended together.

Going rich


For one, the ECU appears to be adding more fuel than I expected in boost. That and/or the air charge is just heavily exhaust diluted...I'm guessing both. Every time I ride this thing I'm having to yank out tons of fuel and its still rich. I found some information on the OE IAP sensor and was able to plot the voltage vs pressure and extrapolate it to the 5v limit and came up with a ~139kpa cap before setting a manifold pressure diagnostic fault. I'm not at that pressure yet, but the ECU is still adding fuel to compensate for the additional air. This engine naturally aspirated at 120kpa manifold pressure would make far more power than a turbocharged version at 120kpa manifold pressure, and judging from recent data I'm sure Suzuki calibrated the ECU to account for additional barometric pressure accordingly. So, it's pig rich. Gotta keep pulling fuel out.

Second, the PC is totally unaware of intake air temperature. It is a horrible flaw in the design, having only one analog input, but I digress... When I shut the bike off for 20 minutes after riding and everything heat soaks, all air delivered to the engine is heated up before entering the engine for the first few minutes after it is restarted. Getting into boost the PC adjusts fuel based on the values I entered at some cooler temperature when the air was more dense. Meeting this with the same ol fuel being the dumb device that it is, the bike goes rich. As I lean it out further, bringing the pressure fuel tables closer to 0 and 'handing off' fueling duties to the ECU that DOES account for intake temperature, this should be less of an issue. But a problem nonetheless, and a pretty bad fail by power commander.

Third, the autotune is dead to me. I spoke to power commander tech support and after being told that Dynojet doesn't offer a PC for the GSX-S1000, I was able to get some limited details on the features of the autotune device. Specifically, I asked under what criteria the autotune updates a trim cell. For a little background, it is extremely poor practice to correct for process errors during any transition. There must be some criteria met to determine steady state before allowing variable correction. Any automaker or supplier worth their salt has been aware of this since the 1970s and they all still disable updates to learned fueling correction during a transient. Any excess rate of change in RPM or manifold pressure (or throttle position in alpha N systems) disables updates to fueling correction. It is extremely difficult to model resident port fuel mass and it is just as difficult to make every engine and intake port or chamber exactly the same, so trimming fuel while the engine state is changing isn't generally permitted. But with the autotune it is. The only criteria to update trim values is 20 'cell hits' which occur at a rate of 15 per second, steady state notwithstanding. The result is burying transient fueling error into the power commander surface that provides adjustments to steady state fuel. The only fix here is to disable autotune entirely and filter the data manually in excel. There is an accel pump feature, but again like the heat soak issue, it is only accurate under nominal conditions. It exists to smooth out the feel of the bike, not be accurate. I'll be working on a spreadsheet to take the .csv output of the POD-300 and filter out data samples taken during engine transients. If anyone is interested and/or doesn't like chasing their tail with the autotune, I can post up the spreadsheet when I finish it.

Quick screenshot showing the errors that get buried into the autotune trims. Note the quick change in throttle position at fairly constant RPM resulting in AFR dropping into the 11s. Again this can be minimized, but the PC control is not good enough to prevent error in off-nominal scenarios, which is basically any throttle delta, MAP, or RPM other than what you've set the accel pump feature to compensate for.
 

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There is an oil cooler on this motor. It is a liquid cooler type located directly behind the oil filter spigot. Coolant is circulated through the housing which cools the oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 · (Edited)
Couple updates... This thing still isn't making power. Running the POD data through excel shows it wants less fuel than stock through peak torque. My conclusion is too much turbo drive/back pressure. One of my requirements was to use full exhaust, but it isn't playing well with the cam profile. Snapshot of the spreadsheet...absolute pressure on X axis, RPM on Y. 17 is roughly 3psi. This table is my input pressure fuel surface plus the % fueling error I collected during a ride applied to it.



It's doing ok at 16psia/2 pounds of boost, but touching 3 and higher really drives pressure up, and right around 9500rpm which is peak torque. It only really starts needing more fuel at higher boost when I turn it so fast the exhaust has no chance to back up into the intake due to lack of time during valve overlap. I wouldn't be surprised if when I take it apart I find evidence of exhaust in the intake plenum.

I'm going to put the bike back to stock for the time being. With my trip to the mountains coming up and the amount of work I still need to do to the kit, I'm better off with OE hardware on the bike. The fix will be to redo the exhaust to the largest I can manage. But that will have to happen at a later date.
 
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