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So I have been riding for a decade and I finally got a brand new gsxs1000. I'm just wondering how you guys have broken yours in? Has anybody had any issues? I have 20 miles on in. Everyone at the dealership said take it easy, but I'm like its mine. I want to break her in smooth.
 

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Let me be the first to Welcome you Mr HamS1000 to The Forum,
Great feeling the new bike, one part of your mind just want's to just sit and look at her, and the other side just wants you to flog it up the road.
Do both, is my answer, as there is no way that you will break it.
Yes, the motor has been red lined in the Factory, but that's not for longer than a brief second without forming hot spots. Other parts need to bed in more slowly over time in the engine.
Your tyres should be your primary concern as they need a few heat cycles to fully cure the tread, and the sidewalls need to bed in as well.
Last thing, don't be too hasty to fiddle with the suspension settings till around 1000 km or so, as the forks and rear shock need time to bed in, and the tyre's are part of that feeling too.

Enjoy !

Rob.
 

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if you been around motorcycles for a while and you have...you know how to treat a new motor and as miles go on ...and you up the rpm as some miles go on....you know when its time let it rip..know one knows better then you...enjoy
 

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Flog it out of the gate mate. Seriously, go watch MC garage break in episode. They used strict laboratory conditions and highly accurate tools to measure differences and soft vs hard break in has zero effect.

I rode out of the dealership and 20km later i was doing 200+ km/hr.

Dont think about it too hard.
 

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So I have been riding for a decade and I finally got a brand new gsxs1000. I'm just wondering how you guys have broken yours in? Has anybody had any issues? I have 20 miles on in. Everyone at the dealership said take it easy, but I'm like its mine. I want to break her in smooth.
Read your manual. The engineers who design and build your engine know exactly what it requires. I will not second-guess them or listen to anyone who does.
 

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Love these "break in" discussions almost as much as the "which is the best oil to use" discussions!!!! Let the arguments begin. I'll reserve my 2cents worth as I know everyone is going to do it the way they think is best anyway!!!!!
 

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Just ride it normal but try not to red line it plus you need to make sure you work on loading it up on deceleration to bed The rings so your not just bedding the rings on exceleration.
This is how I've nearly always run a new engine in and I've never had a problem.
In the old days the 70s that seems to me like a couple of years ago.....time goes so quickly STUPID TIME I would follow the running in procedure to the Letter but these days I just don't bother.
 

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The thing is with the GSX-S1K, there is so much power and torque down low, that you have to really try hard to abuse it.
That's why smaller CC bikes are often more fun, more often. At least for me.

Rob.
 

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If you need to ask you are probably as confused as I am by the opposing arguments. Despite this I would advise following the manufacturer's instruction - afterall, the only consequences of that is the frustration of waiting a while before enjoying peak performance.
 

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This is gonna be long, so my apologies in advance, but there's a lot of info I need to get across..

The #1 killer of a new motor is excessive heat being generated during break-in. The moving surfaces haven't mated in yet (i.e., pistons and rings rubbing against the cylinder walls, etc.), and running clearances (i.e., piston and ring diameter vs cylinder diameter) are the tightest they're ever going to be, if only because those clearances are naturally going to increase as the surfaces eventually wear. Letting an engine get too hot will run the risk of reducing those clearances below safe minimums, because the piston diameter increases as it gets hotter (because the metal expands outward) and the cylinder diameter is reduced (because the metal in the walls expands inward, just as a hole in a metal block will decrease in size as the block is heated). Also, the gap in the rings is reduced when the rings get too hot, and if the gap is completely eliminated the rings must grow in diameter as the temperature rises further, because the ring material continues to expand and grow in length but there's no room left to expand. So what was an acceptable fit at normal operating temperatures can become an unacceptably tight fit (or even a press-fit) at elevated temperatures, such that the sliding action of the rings in the cylinder now become more of a cutting action, chewing away the cylinder walls.

So you can see why it's very important to never let the engine get too hot, but it's even more critical during break-in.

That being said, you DO want to subject the engine to varying loads (and varying rpms) during break-in, because you do want the various moving surfaces to scrub-in together. That's particularly important at the wear interface between the rings and the cylinders, as the rings are designed to press harder against the cylinder walls as the load on the engine is increased (i.e., the more you open the throttle). So it's important not to "baby" the engine during break-in, but as I stated earlier it's also important not to overheat it either.

While we're on the subject of heat, here's another thing to remember -- NEVER run a cold engine hard, because things don't fit together correctly until they're up to normal operating temperature. For example, a piston isn't round when it's cold...there are thick sections of the piston (the wrist pin bosses) and there are thin sections (the skirts), and those different sections expand at different rates, so it's not until the piston is at operating temperature that it becomes truly "round".

That being said, here's what I do during break-in of a fresh motor...

I'll take the vehicle out onto the highway, running at highway speeds in top gear, and I'll look around to make sure there aren't any cops around, and I'll drop it down a couple of gears down and open the throttle wide open and hold the throttle open until I either run out of nerve or reach the redline. Then I close the throttle, snick it back into high gear and let out the clutch and trail-throttle back to legal cruising speed and run at legal speed for a couple of minutes again, letting the accumulated engine heat dissipate through the radiator. Then I'll repeat the process again, keeping an eye on the temperature guage, and never letting it get appreciably warmer than normal without letting the engine cool fully back down to normal operating temperature again.

I guarantee if you spend an hour doing that, your bike will be fully broken in.

Regarding "redline", it's perfectly okay to run a brand new engine up to the factory-designated redline (assuming the engine's warmed up fully) and hold it at that rpm indefinitely. The "redline" is simply an operational limit placed on the owner by the manufacturer...it's the manufacturer's way of protecting themselves. Basically, they're saying that as long as you don't exceed the redline, the manufacturer will guarantee that the engine will not come flying apart. Of course, if you do exceed that limit, then the guarantee is no longer valid, lol.

And you DO want to at least occasionally take the engine to redline, or at least to the highest rpm that it will ever see at any time during it's service life. Here's the reason for that: at very high rpms, the connecting rod gets elastically stretched because it has to stop the piston from it's high-speed travel towards the top of the cylinder and yank it back down in the reverse direction again...and keep in mind this is all happening at extremely high rates of piston acceleration and deceleration, so very high stretching forces are being applied to the connecting rod. And because the rod is elastically stretched at the top of the stroke, the piston (and more importantly, the piston rings) are "visiting" an area higher up in the cylinder than they would normally be visiting at lower rpms. Remember that as a cylinder wears, it naturally grows in diameter due to the wear. However, it's not the piston that's wearing the cylinder, it's the outward pressure of the rings against the cylinder wall. So the area of the cylinder that's higher than the level of the topmost ring actually never wears at all (and thus never grows in diameter) during the service life of the engine. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, unless you have a worn cylinder in an engine that was never subjected to high-rpm operation in its younger days, then one day late in its service life the owner decided to run the engine up to redline! And guess what happens then -- the connecting rod will stretch due to the high rpm, and the topmost ring will slam into the underside of a "ridge" at the top of the cylinder that has never been visited before (and thus has never been worn away), with the result that the topmost "ring land" on the piston gets crushed and the ring gets destroyed, which will then destroy the cylinder wall in the following few seconds (i.e., a destroyed engine), all because the owner never ran the rpm up to redline when the engine was still young.

And regarding the owner's manual stating that "engine speed should be kept below xxxx rpm for the first xxxx miles", that restriction is in there because the manufacturer has no idea who will be buying that engine or how it will be used...if the brand new engine is used for nothing except jack-rabbit starts from red lights, and immediately stops at the next light, and jumps again from that light, ad nauseum, then even in such a situation, as long as the owner never exceeds the stated rpm then there is very little likelihood that the motor will overheat...effectively, the manufacturer is simply protecting the idiot owner against his own stupidity (and protecting themselves, because they're also protecting their guarantee that the motor will also survive his stupidity).

Sorry again for the very wordy response.
 

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This is gonna be long, so my apologies in advance, but there's a lot of info I need to get across..
<<snipped.

Regarding "redline", it's perfectly okay to run a brand new engine up to the factory-designated redline (assuming the engine's warmed up fully) and hold it at that rpm indefinitely.
The "redline" is simply an operational limit placed on the owner by the manufacturer...it's the manufacturer's way of protecting themselves. Basically, they're saying that as long as you don't exceed the redline, the manufacturer will guarantee that the engine will not come flying apart. Of course, if you do exceed that limit, then the guarantee is no longer valid, lol.

<<snipped>>
Sorry again for the very wordy response.
Yes written Old JackBob,
Honda say that every engine they design is bench tested for 24 hours at red line, and has to pass that before it goes onto eventual production. I would assume that they carry it on to final sad destruction.

Rob.
 

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This is gonna be long, so my apologies in advance, but there's a lot of info I need to get across..

Letting an engine get too hot will run the risk of reducing those clearances below safe minimums, because the piston diameter increases as it gets hotter (because the metal expands outward) and the cylinder diameter is reduced (because the metal in the walls expands inward, just as a hole in a metal block will decrease in size as the block is heated).
Nice write up but I'm not sure about 1 point you make.

From what I remember of my university physics many years ago as the engine block expands the block expands outward (we all know as things expand they become less dense as the expand), for the hole to become smaller the block material would have to compress, thus the hole does not become smaller but slightly larger.

We all know how to release a stud stuck in the engine block, you use a bow torch to heat the block and the stud and as the block is larger it expands slightly more than the stud freeing the stud.
 

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Paul,

The principle you illustrate is true for thin (or relatively thin) walls around a hole, but for large solid blocks and small holes there are sometimes other considerations. Here is a snip out of a conversation thread I found on the web that attempts to expound on that concept (it is important to note that their conversation is about whether a hole will shrink or expand in a block that is frozen, whereas our question is whether the hole will shrink or expand when the block is heated):

In general, with ordinary materials, the hole will contract. There even was someone giving specific number of how much they will contract which apply to only a linear (straight line, rail road tie). Although many people have everyday observations about getting one pipe into another, or bearings into holes which they are bigger, the lessons learned from those are not to be applied to situations where thick walls are greater than the small hole. To further confuse, most are talking about outer diameter and not inner diameter. For reference, lets bring up Mechanics of Materials chapter of Thick Cylinder Walls, specifically applied to Cylinders with holes in the center.

Look at figure 10.1 and figure 10.2 and observe that under thin cylinders (small thickness, large hole) we only consider the linear contractions along the circumference, leading to a contraction coefficient of sigma_H = rho*D/2/t, we call this hoop stress. This is the formula which is very intuitive.

But our question is for a thick cylinder wall. Lets look at Figure 10.2, and understand the sigma_H = A + B/r2 (hoop stress), and the radial stress is sigma_r = A-B/r2. Where r is the center line of the material. From the area of between the hole and the center line, the metal is under extreme compression, especially where the hole is. The metal is under tensile stress on the outside. This tensile stress makes the object want to contract its outer diameter. This is the reason the outside of the metal can fit inside another hole. The large compression forces near the hole, counteract the effect of the entire object wanting to contract. Lets again focus on, the hole in the middle, not the entire object shrinking. For most metals (all?), I would agree that the hole would shrink, but this occurs under the condition that tensile strength being stronger and a non symmetric (not equally opposite) of compression strength. So while this will apply very accurately for most metals, doing the same for concrete (which has almost no tensile strength) the hole will not contract. In fact, if the thickness of the metal is extremely larger than the hole (approaches infinity), than the accuracy of the thin wall cylinder formula is off by an infinate amount; refer to Figure 10.7. For instance your drill a 1 in hole inside a 2 inch (diameter) block, the approximation of the others' formulas is off by 12%.

Lets View Figure 10.8, and reiterate that if the Hoop stress coefficient is a Positive B, and the Radial stress coefficient is Negative B. These are usually equal and opposite, but B_hoop is not guaranteed to be the same magnitude as B_radial.

Edit- Reference for figures: http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/hartford/users/papers/engr/ernesto/poworp/Project/4. Supporting_Material/Books/32658_10.pdf

This reference http://courses.washington.edu/me354a/Thick Walled Cylinders.pdf has actual data of normal metals, showing that what other people said to be correct (but not for the reasons they stated). In fact, metals have tensile strength much greater than compression strength.

TLDR; The hole will contract due to mechanics of material in steel having about 1.5x higher tensile strength over compression strength. If we have a material which has higher compression strength, the hole will not contract.


[and the response]


Unless I'm missing something, your sources say nothing about thermal contraction, they're about deformation under mechanical stress.

Look at figure 10.1 and figure 10.2 and observe that under thin cylinders (small thickness, large hole) we only consider the linear contractions along the circumference, leading to a contraction coefficient of sigma_H = rho*D/2/t, we call this hoop stress. This is the formula which is very intuitive, and every one in this article is citing.

You're confusing stress and strain. And that's not a rho, that's a p for the internal pressure, as you can see from where the formula is given the first time, in the previous chapter. Not sure why they (apparently) used a lower case p when the diagram labels it as P.

Where r is the center line of the material. From the area of between the hole and the center line, the metal is under extreme compression, especially where the hole is.

...The metal where the hole is is under radial stress equal to the internal pressure, as is clearly marked, because otherwise it wouldn't be in equilibrium. And r doesn't represent the "center line", or any particular line. It's the independent variable in the equations given for the radial and circumferential stress. The stresses each vary continuously over the radius.


[and the reply to the response]


My wordy interpretation was not fully accurate, but my take home points still stand. From my sources, there were many Figures, and the formulas didn't use nomenclature the same as the formulas. Thank you for pointing that out.

I was the only person in this discussion to point out that linear contraction does not apply for thick wall cylinders. Perhaps I got too wordy, and lacked emphasis to my important points; distracting our readers by formulas.

You point out that I'm concerned with stresses. this is because DUE to contraction of different circumferences. The compression force on the inner radius counteracts the contraction. Say we have a thin piece of metal, were know it to have a linear contraction of x per meter. if the inner radius is very different than the outer radius (a thick cylinder), then we must apply hooks law and consider that the metal will act like a spring, with out outer wall being stretch, and the inner wall being compressed. That is why I mentioned all these formulas, some are additive to the contraction, some are subtractive. I needed to explain these pressures so you know which situation to ignore them, and when to just consider the linear thermal expansion/contraction. For example a hole in a concrete slab, for which compression forces dominate the thermal contraction forces. I'm not deleting these posts, and I appreciate you being observant and looking into my sources in a true AskScience manner, but I implore you to accept the points of which were valid while you point out that a rho is a 'p'.

The top rated comment mentioned how much metal will contract while refering to a pipe around another pipe, but yet quoted linear contraction coefficient. Perhaps we should consider coefficient of the arclength of the circumference of the thin walled cylinder and its ratio to diameter. Because any contraction will be along the circumference, (which corresponds to a diameter contraction ratio of 1/pi), ultimately affecting the radius, but not as much as the linear contraction itself.

NOTE: The above clip was very slightly edited for clarity here.

And with all that said, Paul, you're certainly correct anyway, because we're not actually talking about a small hole in a very large block (which is what the above referenced thread was specifically talking about). So your argument does apply much more strongly since we're discussing a very large hole (actually 4 very large holes) in a relatively small block. And in that case the holes will certainly grow as the block is heated.

I should have probably just said that the clearance between the piston and cylinder will shrink as temperatures rise (and which according to the above tech talk is arguably true to some degree), and also because the cylinder diameter would not grow as rapidly as the piston diameter, if only because the cylinder has full-flood cooling jackets surrounding it and the piston is cooled mostly by conduction transfer to the cylinder wall through the oil film (and also by a small amount of oil splash from underneath), so the piston is bound by the law of thermal conduction to run hotter than the cylinder wall whenever the engine is under load.

But the short answer is, you're right of course...the cylinder diameter will grow with temperature. I do stand corrected, and thank you for the lump on the head! :)
 

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Ride it like you stole it! Seriously, don't worry about break in procedure...you are not going to hurt the engine. My best advice is to just avoid full synthetic oil for the 1st thousand miles or so. Like someone else mentioned here, Motorcyclist Mag online did a great test of the question about break in. The had two identical motors built to the same specs. The ran one engine according to the factory procedure, the other engine they rode hard and fast. After a certain number of miles the tested compression on both engines and they were identical. They checked many other things as well and found ZERO differences between the motors. I really don't care that someone posts obnoxiously long comments about his THEORY on the issue. This was put to the test in the REAL world and break in made no difference in engine performance. FWIW, I followed the factory procedure, but knowing what i know now I will not bother with that nonsense again.

Ask race teams with high HP motors how they break in their engines. On the dyno and the track....and full throttle at that.
 

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But Super, Race teams know they will be tearing their motors down after a short period of time for rebuild, so I don’t agree with that comparison. I do believe it really doesn’t matter how you break in the engine, especially from the “2 identical motors” test mentioned twice above.

It’s which method you feel more comfortable with. It’s your bike.
 

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Supercharger said:
I really don't care that someone posts obnoxiously long comments about his THEORY on the issue.
My "THEORY on the issue" (specifically, the importance of running the engine under load during break-in while carefully watching engine temperature) in my "obnoxiously long comment" (which I apologized for the length of in advance and also at the end of the post, and which you apparently read nonetheless) is also mirrored in this article on the proper approach to breaking in an aircraft engine, written by a petroleum engineer and lubricants expert who worked in Shell's R&D lab for 33 years, a prolific author of numerous books and articles on lubricants and proper engine break-in (and who also happens to hold a world's record for fuel economy in a passenger car):

https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/10/25/tips-to-break-in-your-new-engine/

Supercharger said:
FWIW, I followed the factory procedure, but knowing what i know now I will not bother with that nonsense again.
So factory recommendations are also "nonsense" to you...lol, okay. The last sentence in the article linked above states "...it is very critical [emphasis added] to follow whatever recommendations the people who are warranting your particular engine give."

I'm done with this thread.
 

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There's no winner in this argument as the majority of new bike Owners sell their blinged up machines before any break in ever happen's.
So many bikes of the GSX-S1K ilk get traded before or around 10, 000 KM or the warranty expiration period or the 'latest and greatest' newer bike becomes available.
This being so, the original Owner will not see any benefit OR deficit in their break in procedure.

My experience is that I have never felt any difference up to the time that I have kept my bikes, (of which there were many) to see any evidence of "break in".
My bike ownership's ends usually just before 10,000 KM, with the longest being the great 2005 K5 GSX-R at 20,000 KM.

I believe there is benefit in following the Manufacturers advice as it does no harm.
But if you could read every Owners Manual since time began, they all would parrot the same words from a belief they could always blame it on the Owner not following in advent of failure of their product.
There is not much way of arguing with them on this, as it's all stacked against you, The Owner, if they deny fault.

To Old Jack Bob,
A friendly note, Please do not type in red, the preferred method of quoting is to use Italics and double inverted comma's at each end of the quote.
Red is far too harsh, and represents shouting, like typing in capitals.

Rob.
 
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