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Discussion Starter #1
Anybody else put 100% Nitrogen in their tires? For my bike, I like Nitrogen way more than air in my tires.
 

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100% nitrogen? So you managed to use a vacuum pump and remove ALL of the air before inflating with N2?

TBH I've had N2 in car tyres before and I can't say I ever noticed a difference. Maybe I would on the bike, but the extra faff outweighs the advantage for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No, I did not pull a vacuum prior to inflating with nitrogen. Got me there. :rolleyes:

I did deflate the tires as much as possible before inflating. Dallas is at 755 feet above sea level, 64% humidity, it was 81 degrees, and final pressure in tire was 34 front and 41 rear. What percentage do you think the nitrogen would be? :rolleyes:
 

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I did deflate the tires as much as possible before inflating. Dallas is at 755 feet above sea level, 64% humidity, it was 81 degrees, and final pressure in tire was 34 front and 41 rear. What percentage do you think the nitrogen would be? :rolleyes:
ha ha, by careful calculation I have..... err..... no idea, but I bet it's somewhere between 79 and 99% :D
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for your hypothesis. That's a high enough percentage of nitrogen for my tires.

Seriously, I can feel the improvement with the Nitrogen in the tires. We have a supply of free Nitrogen at our shop and that's better for me.

Before I put helium in the tires... I will definitely pull a <500 micron vacuum before inflating.

Joking. Never heilum.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It is a full moon...
 

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A waste of time and money, unless the fill and top ups are free. LOL

A regular check of tyre pressure is essential regardless of air or N. Problem is just checking the pressure will result in a loss of pressure and especially in the smaller front tyre. I check pressure each week and before a good ride so a fill of N will be wasted. The facts don't stack up - google 'nitrogen in tyres tires' and read the non commercial articles.
 

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I have used Helium. It will only keep a tire inflated for a few hours because it leaks out. Even industrial helium cylinders are a nightmare to keep sealed. Small molecules leak very easily.

The part that might be of importance is "clean and dry". The type of "clean and dry" is really a non issue.

I dont mind the people making money from Nitrogen fills, but I've known people who swear the nitrogen fill is special...thus, you are better off running a tire with low pressure than topping off with air ?????????
 

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Nitrogen changes density very little with relatively large changes in temperature. This is very beneficial in applications like air craft tires, where sudden contact with the ground while landing causes large, rapid temperature increase. This can have slight benefits for race applications (car and motorcycle), though the temperature changes are significantly less extreme.

Basically, unless you're roasting your tire coming out of a corner, no real benefit.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You mean... I'm not supposed to roast my tires daily? Ahh man!


I have no scientific proof the Nitrogen helps the tires perform better than air. I can say, the bike seems rides better with the FREE Nitrogen in the tires. Back to my tire roasting!
 

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My concours 14 has an onboard tire pressure monitoring system, like cars. When I use nitrogen, the display never changes.

If its air, from my 30 year old compressor, it will occasionally see a bump of alb, or 2 after it gets hot.

The same leaking tire may or may not have been filled with r134a refrigerant as an emergency measure.

If you want the best, you need to use Argon.

Co2 was a fun one, too. Fill it today, and the tire would be flat tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My concours 14 has an onboard tire pressure monitoring system, like cars. When I use nitrogen, the display never changes.

If its air, from my 30 year old compressor, it will occasionally see a bump of alb, or 2 after it gets hot.

The same leaking tire may or may not have been filled with r134a refrigerant as an emergency measure.

If you want the best, you need to use Argon.

Co2 was a fun one, too. Fill it today, and the tire would be flat tomorrow.
Good info, rcannon409
 

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How do they separate helium, nitrogen or oxygen atoms, etc and put them in separate containers? I've always wondered that.
That's actually a fairly complicated question, and each gas has a different answer (in practice).

In principle, each could be condensed out of the air. Have you ever seen a phase diagram? If not, google it real quick. If you overlay the phase diagrams for each gas, you'll see that you can sequentially isolate each by changing the pressure and temperature to a point that one condenses into a liquid. This is a really inefficient way to go about it though. You can also just liquefy all the air and then use fractional distillation.

Fractional distillation works on the same principle, but in reverse. You find a liquid that contains your desired substance, and sequentially boil out and isolate. This is an easier process to control, since, within reason, you cannot heat a mixture higher than the lowest boiling point of any substance within it. And it can actually be more efficient, depending on what you're after, especially when what you want might be "waste" when trying to isolate something else (think of all the byproducts from oil/gas refining), since you have to go sequentially based on the phase diagrams.

You can also adsorb the desired gas, then use a chemical process to isolate it from the adsorbent. This kinda works like a filter, you find a substance that bond with the desired gas, pass air through it. Then you use chemical processes to separate the gas.

There are a lot of other ways to go about it too, but fractional distillation and chemical separation after adsorption are probably the most common.

I hope that helps, lemme know if I can help make anything in it clearer. Also, I kinda went all over the place in answering this. One fine point here, I may have missed, are you more interested in where does the gas you use come from (in which case, whatever way happens to be cheapest and easiest), or specifically how could one take normal air and turn it into these gases (in that case, cryogenic distillation, it's where you take air, cool/compress it to a liquid, then slowly boil off and isolate each gas).

-Jaren
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Great info, USSENTERNCC1701E.
 

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Uss gave great info, and much more educated than mine.

We do a lot of gas separation at work. I take care of several machines that do it. Typically, trucks deliver liquid nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, etc and store liquid in cryogenic, vaccuum tanks. They "make" the liquid at places that look like this.

http://www.uigi.com/Indiana_3_md.jpg

Liquid is good because it expands 700 times when it turns to gas. A small, liquid container will be enough to fill thousands of tires, or autoclaves.


The most awesome one to work with is oxygen. Occasionally you'll have a leak and can capture liquid oxygen (for short time) in a coffee cup. The color is like a clear Suzuki's gsxr blue. One cant help but stare at it like a 4 year old.

Hydrogen is the most odd/crazy/terrifying. Its temperature is @ -415 degrees. If you send it through tubing, and its over your head, you can make it snow on a 100 degree day.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Uss gave great info, and much more educated than mine.

We do a lot of gas separation at work. I take care of several machines that do it. Typically, trucks deliver liquid nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, etc and store liquid in cryogenic, vaccuum tanks. They "make" the liquid at places that look like this.

http://www.uigi.com/Indiana_3_md.jpg

Liquid is good because it expands 700 times when it turns to gas. A small, liquid container will be enough to fill thousands of tires, or autoclaves.


The most awesome one to work with is oxygen. Occasionally you'll have a leak and can capture liquid oxygen (for short time) in a coffee cup. The color is like a clear Suzuki's gsxr blue. One cant help but stare at it like a 4 year old.

Hydrogen is the most odd/crazy/terrifying. Its temperature is @ -415 degrees. If you send it through tubing, and its over your head, you can make it snow on a 100 degree day.
All of that would be cool to see! You see that at work? Dayum!
 
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