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Discussion Starter #1
Hi GSX-Sers

I have had my GSX-S since October and have recently joined the forum after reading a lot of posts about "snappy throttle" and hard to get "constant throttle". I was a mechanic for a number of years and my new GSX-S dissapointed me from the start with regards to the characteristics of the motor. It was nearly dangerous on rough roads (and Aus has lots of these) due to the snatchy throttle, I was always chasing the throttle to keep a constant speed and not get caught by one of our speed cameras, the idle was inconsistent and it displayed symptoms of being excessively lean until it hit the go button at around 7,000 rpm.

Being a mechanic I had to fix all these things that were bugging me, I like my bikes perfect and are renown for my patience when sorting a bike out.

I took my GSX-S to DeWith Motorsport (Mick DeWith is a great friend of mine) and ran it up on the dyno and found the bike to be very lean up to 8,000 rpm. Just what I suspected. It's 138.6 HP was far below the advertised Suzuki figure so I was justified in complaining that the bike was a bit weak.

I fitted a Power Commander 5 that had a map in it for the GSX-S1000 but that made very little difference so we began the process of manually mapping the fuel through the Power Commander. 44 dyno runs later and we had roughed out a starting map which gave me a 4 to 8 HP gain right through the rev range with a top output of 146.8 HP. Now I was getting what the Suzuki advertising told me.

On test riding, the throttle was much smoother, the bike would pull hard in any gear and hold a constant throttle. I did not move my hand once in 20kms @ 100KPH on the highway, it had never done that before. There was no big rush at 7,000 rpm plus as the bike now had power all the way to 7,000 rpm and the bottom, middle and top matched each other. There was no jerkiness at city traffic speeds.

I have not touched the low throttle openings yet and have only roughed in a fuel map. I will spend another day fine tuning the bike when I can get some more dyno time.

I have some other tuning mods to do as well and will report back on them.

Does anyone know what happens around 7,000 rpm, do the secondary throttle butterflies or the exhaust flapper open then, does some electronic thisg happen at 7,000 rpm. It is very tricky to tune around 7,000 rpm. I will find it but someone may be able to save me the effort. You can see it in both the dyno curves and the power commander does not respond very well at that range.

My bike is stock as a rock except for the Power Commander and I reckon you're better off buying a Power Commander than an aftermarket slip on muffler. How many mufflers quote a 4 plus HP increase right throughout the rev range and make the bike far more rideable in all situations.

The fuel mapping seems to be the solution to a lot of the issues discussed in this forum. I hope this post has helped a few people.

Also the exhaust note changed dramatically, it's now deeper.

I have already tried to upload the map last night and failed, I hope it works this time. The stock dyno run is in red, the one after a days day's mapping with the Power Commander 5 is in black. Each line is equal to 4 HP on the verticle scale.

I took videos of the GSX-S on the dyno and will edit out all the garbage and submit it soon so you can hear a GSX-S at full throttle.

Cheers from Aus

Yoshcbx6
 

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Hi GSX-Sers

I have had my GSX-S since October and have recently joined the forum after reading a lot of posts about "snappy throttle" and hard to get "constant throttle". I was a mechanic for a number of years and my new GSX-S dissapointed me from the start with regards to the characteristics of the motor. It was nearly dangerous on rough roads (and Aus has lots of these) due to the snatchy throttle, I was always chasing the throttle to keep a constant speed and not get caught by one of our speed cameras, the idle was inconsistent and it displayed symptoms of being excessively lean until it hit the go button at around 7,000 rpm.

Being a mechanic I had to fix all these things that were bugging me, I like my bikes perfect and are renown for my patience when sorting a bike out.

I took my GSX-S to DeWith Motorsport (Mick DeWith is a great friend of mine) and ran it up on the dyno and found the bike to be very lean up to 8,000 rpm. Just what I suspected. It's 138.6 HP was far below the advertised Suzuki figure so I was justified in complaining that the bike was a bit weak.

I fitted a Power Commander 5 that had a map in it for the GSX-S1000 but that made very little difference so we began the process of manually mapping the fuel through the Power Commander. 44 dyno runs later and we had roughed out a starting map which gave me a 4 to 8 HP gain right through the rev range with a top output of 146.8 HP. Now I was getting what the Suzuki advertising told me.

On test riding, the throttle was much smoother, the bike would pull hard in any gear and hold a constant throttle. I did not move my hand once in 20kms @ 100KPH on the highway, it had never done that before. There was no big rush at 7,000 rpm plus as the bike now had power all the way to 7,000 rpm and the bottom, middle and top matched each other. There was no jerkiness at city traffic speeds.

I have not touched the low throttle openings yet and have only roughed in a fuel map. I will spend another day fine tuning the bike when I can get some more dyno time.

I have some other tuning mods to do as well and will report back on them.

Does anyone know what happens around 7,000 rpm, do the secondary throttle butterflies or the exhaust flapper open then, does some electronic thisg happen at 7,000 rpm. It is very tricky to tune around 7,000 rpm. I will find it but someone may be able to save me the effort. You can see it in both the dyno curves and the power commander does not respond very well at that range.

My bike is stock as a rock except for the Power Commander and I reckon you're better off buying a Power Commander than an aftermarket slip on muffler. How many mufflers quote a 4 plus HP increase right throughout the rev range and make the bike far more rideable in all situations.

The fuel mapping seems to be the solution to a lot of the issues discussed in this forum. I hope this post has helped a few people.

Also the exhaust note changed dramatically, it's now deeper.

I have already tried to upload the map last night and failed, I hope it works this time. The stock dyno run is in red, the one after a days day's mapping with the Power Commander 5 is in black. Each line is equal to 4 HP on the verticle scale.

I took videos of the GSX-S on the dyno and will edit out all the garbage and submit it soon so you can hear a GSX-S at full throttle.

Cheers from Aus

Yoshcbx6
Nice post!

FYI. BOS exhaust states 6.5 HP gain for their slip-on.

Also......you gonna share that MAP with us PCV users? Sell it maybe? :)
 

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Thanks for posting. I have many questions, but I'll start with these.


44 WOT dyno runs? What does the rear tire look like now?


If you didn't do any tuning at low throttle openings, why would the drivability be better at cruising speeds???
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'd love to put a pipe like that on my bike but our laws in Aus make it a risk so I have to leave it stock. I don't want to be cop bait at my age.
That writing on the stock muffler about compliance usually keeps the EPA of your back.

I wonder whether the exhaust manufacturers are quoting HP figures by just fitting the muffler or whether they remap as well. I'd love to do a test to see what manufacturers pipe is the best but for the cost of a muffler in AUS it's out of the question. I did it years ago with CBX1000s and the results were surprising.

Most pipes should produce a better flow so it stands to reason that you need to remap the fuel to get the full benefit.

I have however seen bikes that by just putting on a muffler can make a world of difference.

Please note that I am just showing my experience with the Australian model that in my case needed a substantial increase in fuel up to the mid range. That might not be the case everywhere, I notice there are different part numbers for some components in different countries.

It's funny that some countries don't have the snappy throttle or inconsistent throttle but mine did. Fuels are different. Every bike is different. The bike I test rode was as smooth as silk and brand new 000 kms.

My bike was awful and I had to do something hence the first diagnostic dyno run.

I'm retired and don't want to work on bikes that's what disappointed me so much. I just wanted a new bike that I could just jump on and ride and didn't have to work on.

If you have a snappy one throw some fuel at it up to 8,000rpm. A little at a time and go for a test. The Autotune will do it for you as well probably worth the additional cost if you don't have access to a dyno.

Mines got a way to go yet but has improved greatly but I'll keep at it.

Great forum for info on the GSX-S1000.

Cheers

Yoshcbx6
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi LuckyGS

By low throttle I mean 0% to 5% throttle opening and I didn't attempt anything there as I hadn't worked out what electronics are going on at idle and didn't want mess with it until I understood it and had time to reverse it if it didn't work. 5% is just above idle and your not there often. 2,000 rpm is way above 5% throttle opening. The Power Commander 5% isn't really 5% actual, it's a place on the fuel map that you can adjust. I've adjusted every point on the map except 0 & 5%.

I have to do some dyno runs to see where all the pollution and tuning bits and pieces take effect. It'd be nice if Suzuki would put out a fact sheet on this.

I think the main issue on my GSX-S was the lean mixture that made the bike have nothing until the fuel caught up with the throttle opening and it all happened with a bang. Now it is much smoother once the throttle is open. Still not perfect, especially at idle, it's a work in progress but I'm a patient man.

Yep, don't put your bike on a dyno with new tyres, they won't be when you're finished.

They look like I've never been around a corner and half worn out. It got really sticky.

The price you pay for being fussy.

Cheers

Yoshcbx6
 

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I am in the same boat. I don't want to work on mine either. It's just impossible to have a good running bike now due to all the hippie emissions ****. As if motorcycles will kill the environment. Leave a converter on it, fuel it to run proper, and take whatever emissions reductions you get is what I say to the smog cops. Cars are a different story. Too many of them and too large to ignore what they pour out.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It's actually funny but it seems that I am getting better highway fuel economy since richening the mixture up to 8,000 rpm.

I haven't done many kms yet to prove it but didn't expect that, mine was really bad on fuel before and never got the factory figures.

Maybe it's because I'm not constantly chasing the throttle.

Maybe the EPA has got it wrong, if I'm using less fuel isn't that good? I was chasing 13.2 Air Fuel ratio, the GSX-S seems to like that on the dyno I was using.

Each air / fuel ratio sensor is a bit different and dynos are set up differently. My figures may be different compared to other dynos but it's the base point that I keep referring back to to see if there is an improvement.

I just worked out what WOT means, most of the dyno runs are not Wide Open Throttle but there is significant tyre wear as it gets hot.

You start at the bottom and work up to set a fuel map with a Power Commander.

That what takes so long. Every time you make a small adjustment the dyno counts as another run.

You might have five runs to the same throttle position. Finessing it takes even longer I haven't done this yet.

Cheers Yoshcbx6
 

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Hi Yoshcbx6 and welcome. Sounds like you will be a good contributor to the forum. Like Gixxus said, I hope you will share the map when you are satisfied with it. To my knowledge, the only one out there for a PCV is the one that Dynojet developed for a stock bike. I'm hopeful that more maps will become available in the near future. My bike was like yours when I bought it......the throttle was so snatchy that it took a lot of pleasure out of the riding experience, even dangerous at times. I'm still baffled that some bikes, according to some posts on this forum, don't suffer from the "snatchy throttle syndrome". The PCV cured most of the problem for me and a Throttle Tamer took care of the rest. Sometimes I wonder if Suzuki understands just how bad the problem is (at least on some bikes).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi Schmedlab

I'm sure Suzuki engineers didn't take the GSX-S1000 in the traffic or rough or dirt roads, pity because it's a wonderful bike.

If a bloke who hadn't ridden for 20 years got on one he could get into trouble pretty quick on a bumpy road.

I have bought everything to try and improve the rideability of the bike and have yet to fit the throttle tamer, Healtech TRE, Healtech exhaust flapper control eliminator, etc, etc.

I know it will take time as I really don't enjoy working on bikes any more.

I'll keep you updated on my progress.

I have also softened the front end which seemed to help with the bumps.

Cheers

Yoshcbx6
 

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Hi Schmedlab

I'm sure Suzuki engineers didn't take the GSX-S1000 in the traffic or rough or dirt roads, pity because it's a wonderful bike.

If a bloke who hadn't ridden for 20 years got on one he could get into trouble pretty quick on a bumpy road.

I have bought everything to try and improve the rideability of the bike and have yet to fit the throttle tamer, Healtech TRE, Healtech exhaust flapper control eliminator, etc, etc.

I know it will take time as I really don't enjoy working on bikes any more.

I'll keep you updated on my progress.

I have also softened the front end which seemed to help with the bumps.

Cheers

Yoshcbx6
I feel your pain. I went for perfection on all my bikes and car restorations. 20 years of that burns you out. You just want stuff to work after that.
 

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Looking forward to seeing it become perfect over time!

I literally just installed the PCV 30mins ago and went for a quick ride. People claim the map provided fixed the issues but I must definitely be a noob because I felt little difference other than exhaust grumble when decelerating.

I can still feel the jerk from off throttle (albeit not as pronounced) which was disappointing. It does feel more powerful midrange but that might be the louder exhaust note going to my head.
 

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I am in the same boat. I don't want to work on mine either. It's just impossible to have a good running bike now due to all the hippie emissions ****. As if motorcycles will kill the environment. Leave a converter on it, fuel it to run proper, and take whatever emissions reductions you get is what I say to the smog cops. Cars are a different story. Too many of them and too large to ignore what they pour out.
Especially true when you start digging into fuel maps. You soon realize the regs have zero to do with real emissions reductions. Its all about setting the bike , or car, up to pass a test.

Lets say its my concours 14. It runs better with less fuel everywhere...however....running map that burns less fuel makes the bike "illegal". Uh yea...sure......thanks to our govt for their nonsensical approach yet again.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Mine showed very little difference with the map supplied with the PCV too, it didn't really fix anything and they were only working around the edges with 1 & 2 % changes . I ended up making huge changes.

To save yourself a lot of work grab an Autotune and get it to do your map.

It'll be cheaper than a day on the dyno at $150AU per hour and will do a good job. I should have done this.
 

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Mine showed very little difference with the map supplied with the PCV too, it didn't really fix anything and they were only working around the edges with 1 & 2 % changes . I ended up making huge changes.

To save yourself a lot of work grab an Autotune and get it to do your map.

It'll be cheaper than a day on the dyno at $150AU per hour and will do a good job. I should have done this.

Agree. Its hard to feel much below a 5, plus or minus, Isn't it?

Autotune is cool , but you do have to ride as if your creating a map to build a decent one, and thats not much fun.
 

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Are you prepared to upload your map somewhere? I'd be interested in loading the default PCV map and yours into the comparison tool and look at the key areas of difference.
 

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Reviewing your dyno chart it indicates to me even though there's been an increase in HP, your torque is slightly below stock throughout the rev range or am I analyzing it incorrectly?
 

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Must say, I find it quite puzzling that some guys experience almost no to limited (as above) improvement in throttle response with PCV and others claim that it has almost completely eradicated the perceived problem of the jerky throttle. I can still maybe understand varying views regarding the throttle response feel on the stock bike, cause different riders may be able to feel more or less comfortable with the jerky throttle compared to other riders or possible variations of the fuel maps in certain geographic areas; but not sure reason the same fuel map for the GSXS1000 coming with the PCV is yielding different results on the same bike in effect. :confused:
 

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I feel your pain. I went for perfection on all my bikes and car restorations. 20 years of that burns you out. You just want stuff to work after that.

Yet, not one picture of a restoration..how dare you!

What was your specialty, or favorites to restore?

I'd love ot be able to get into the ecu and learn about what it was capable of doing. I'd like to be able to play with the secondary throttle plates.

I believe this is a key part in modern bikes. They say the yamaha r1 produces more power (up to 10,000) when these are restricted to 70% open. Things like this makes me want to have control over them.
 
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