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Discussion Starter #1
I've messaged Bazzaz and Woolich racing about time to market.

Bazzaz is like power commander in that its a piggy back system that adjusts fueling. Pro's and cons in both directions.

Woolich racing do fun little boxes that can write to the ECU so you can adjust anything the ECU can. All of them have auto tune boxes of their own. How much it matters in the end to riding, no idea. But should help the engine last longer and avoid hunting and bogging behavior.

I'll post any reply I get.
 

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Quick update, Woolich now have an ECU to read so support shouldn't be too far away!
At my shop we use woolich ( which is great) to remove any restrictions and alter ignition maps / secondary butterflies etc but we still use a piggy back fueling module. The main reason for this is we can do everything in real time unlike with the woolich kit, we have good results using this method and gain from both. The main benefit with the ecu flash is the ability to remove items without fi codes and removes the need for extra modules that can potently cause issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
At my shop we use woolich ( which is great) to remove any restrictions and alter ignition maps / secondary butterflies etc but we still use a piggy back fueling module. The main reason for this is we can do everything in real time unlike with the woolich kit, we have good results using this method and gain from both. The main benefit with the ecu flash is the ability to remove items without fi codes and removes the need for extra modules that can potently cause issues.
Interesting and good to know. So is it because it makes it easier to adjust the fuel map with it all being in real time rather than take readings, adjust the map, flash the ecu and repeat it all again until you get the map you want?
 

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Interesting and good to know. So is it because it makes it easier to adjust the fuel map with it all being in real time rather than take readings, adjust the map, flash the ecu and repeat it all again until you get the map you want?
The main reason and also a reason auto tune etc is a waste of time in my opinion is due to the lower rev range which is also the most important for smooth riding / cruising.
With a real time custom map using a dyno with a load cell we can map every throttle and rpm range, for example 10% throttle and then every rpm increment up to 4500rpm using the load cell ( 2k, 2.25k, 2.5k etc).
With auto tune for one you've got to maintain perfect throttle position and also rpm, this is impossible on the road or track and a fast sweep through the rev range with normal riding doesn't give an accurate fuel curve, sure theres gains to be had with auto tunes over stock but then compare it to a well done custom map and the difference is very noticeable.
The other area auto tune is difficult is that you need to hit every rpm range and throttle range for it to even sample before the map changes are applied then once again all those ranges have to be hit to check.
 

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Heres a run i did on my dyno today, its a stock bike with only a yoshi slip on. Standard feeling isn't that bad and I've seen far worse on lots of stock bikes, the main error people make is not blocking off the clean air before they do runs making the a/f look very lean when in reality its not, as an example before the clean air was blanked the idle a/f was reading 15/1 after being blanked it showed the true figure of 13.8 which is certainly fine at tick over.
Once I've swapped the exhaust system and carried out some mods i will post some more before and afters.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Heres a run i did on my dyno today, its a stock bike with only a yoshi slip on. Standard feeling isn't that bad and I've seen far worse on lots of stock bikes, the main error people make is not blocking off the clean air before they do runs making the a/f look very lean when in reality its not, as an example before the clean air was blanked the idle a/f was reading 15/1 after being blanked it showed the true figure of 13.8 which is certainly fine at tick over.
Once I've swapped the exhaust system and carried out some mods i will post some more before and afters.
Oh, I had assumed that people would disable PAIR before testing or auto tuning lol. Of course it would read lean with it still active.

So if used auto tune on the Woolich log box on a dyno and went from tick over to limit really slow I should get a decent map?
 

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Oh, I had assumed that people would disable PAIR before testing or auto tuning lol. Of course it would read lean with it still active.

So if used auto tune on the Woolich log box on a dyno and went from tick over to limit really slow I should get a decent map?
You would be surprised how many shops/ people don't disable the pair valve.

Even if you had the log box on the dyno its very difficult to hold the throttle at every throttle opening thats needed as unlike a power commander you have no way of knowing what position the throttle is in to allow the auto tune to work properly, thats not to say it doesn't work and if its the choice of a downloaded map or the auto tune then auto tune is still far better.
 
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