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Discussion Starter #1
I have a full M4 exhaust on the way after which I'm looking to get a Woolich tune done. Before I book this in though, are there any other mods that would significantly affect the result if done AFTER the tune? I have the stock air filter - considered getting a K&N or BMC but from the feedback it doesn't appear to make any real difference on our bikes? I'll also do the airbox mod before hand. I can't think of anything else that would affect the tune....

In addition, this will be my first tune / ECU reflash so I'm a bit lost at what Q's I should be asking the shop before deciding on one. I know I want more than just the basic AFR flash done. With our bikes, it sounds like I should be asking if they remove the speed limiter, exhaust servo & O2 sensors, decel cut, increase RPM limit (is 12.5k safe?) and tune/de-restrict the timing map in addition to the IAP/TPS. I also read here about adjusting the fan temp? Is this just because it seems to come on early/frequently? Anything else to ask? Or areas I should be more specific about to ensure I'm getting a good tune.

Finally, if any of the Aussie lads here have done this around Brisbane area, I'd love to hear your shop recommendations! Cheers.
 

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I have a full M4 exhaust on the way after which I'm looking to get a Woolich tune done. Before I book this in though, are there any other mods that would significantly affect the result if done AFTER the tune? I have the stock air filter - considered getting a K&N or BMC but from the feedback it doesn't appear to make any real difference on our bikes? I'll also do the airbox mod before hand. I can't think of anything else that would affect the tune....

In addition, this will be my first tune / ECU reflash so I'm a bit lost at what Q's I should be asking the shop before deciding on one. I know I want more than just the basic AFR flash done. With our bikes, it sounds like I should be asking if they remove the speed limiter, exhaust servo & O2 sensors, decel cut, increase RPM limit (is 12.5k safe?) and tune/de-restrict the timing map in addition to the IAP/TPS. I also read here about adjusting the fan temp? Is this just because it seems to come on early/frequently? Anything else to ask? Or areas I should be more specific about to ensure I'm getting a good tune.

Finally, if any of the Aussie lads here have done this around Brisbane area, I'd love to hear your shop recommendations! Cheers.
Sounds like you're pretty well informed. The change to fan temp is a reduction to ensure it comes in a little earlier to help keep things cool, doesn't hurt to put it on.
I would highly recommend Ben @ cube performance on the Gold Coast. Really know's his stuff. He owns the Ducati Australian Superbike team.
I rode my bike there from North of Toowoomba and he had it back to me the same day and i rode home.
I also opted for the race tools package, totally unnecessary unless you want the quick shifter.
 

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I'd also be keen to know where you sourced the m4 exhaust. When i was looking around there was only one Aussie distributor and they wanted to charge even more than the expense of buying from the U.S and having it shipped, even with our awful conversion rates. I've paid through the nose for all the upgrades i've made.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'd also be keen to know where you sourced the m4 exhaust. When i was looking around there was only one Aussie distributor and they wanted to charge even more than the expense of buying from the U.S and having it shipped, even with our awful conversion rates. I've paid through the nose for all the upgrades i've made.
Thanks mate. I'll check out Cube! I've found the same regarding part pricing. The exhaust is being shipped in from STG in the states. They stated a 4 week delivery expectation but it's already left the country well ahead of schedule. Will end up being about a 2 week wait from when I ordered to my door.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I also opted for the race tools package, totally unnecessary unless you want the quick shifter.
How does the woolich quickshifter perform? I was tossing up getting a translogic QS. It's about the same price as the additional for the race tools package so maybe some more bang for buck there but I also couldn't see me ever using anything other than the QS if I'm honest.
 

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I had the Woolich tune last week and this is what they did to mine, I am happy with the result and the bike is definitely running better.
001.jpg
002.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I had the Woolich tune last week and this is what they did to mine, I am happy with the result and the bike is definitely running better.
Cheers mate. Do you know what they did with the secondary throttle plates? I spoke to a couple shops today and none of them mentioned this.
 

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Looking to get my bike Woolwich tuned, from recollection on my last GSXS I had the following done.
  • IAP Fuel Maps - adjusted to suit decat & KN
  • TPS Fuel Maps - adjusted
  • Ignition Timing Maps- adjusted
  • Ignition Dwell Map/s- adjusted
  • Secondary Throttle Plate (STP) Opening Maps- adjusted
  • Fuel Trim Map/s- adjusted
  • Exhaust Valve Opening Maps- adjusted
  • Adjust Idle RPM- no change
  • Adjust RPM Limiter increased to 12.2k
  • Adjust Fan Temperature- not sure
  • Disable Stock O2 Sensor- Disabled & unplugged (no FI light)
  • Disable Deceleration Fuel Cut
  • Disable Exhaust Valve- no
  • Disable PAIR Valve / Disabled & unplugged (no FI light)
  • Disable Top Speed Limiter- yes
  • ECU Mode ?

Updated ignition maps, active in all gears
New curves for exhaust valve
Secondary butterflies revised
I think fuel cut-off was switched to off. I preferred it on for off throttle engine braking but think it affected pickup with surging? certainly like the engine braking more on my new, almost stock bike.
I had an issue with lumpy running between 2.5 and 3k and it took a second visit to tune it out. Low revs I know but thats where you are cruising and filtering in town.
A nice new dyno sheet, no massive gains in power or economy but a very different bike to ride.
 

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Cheers mate. Do you know what they did with the secondary throttle plates? I spoke to a couple shops today and none of them mentioned this.
No idea about the plates sorry, I dont even know what they are, most of my bike biking rides have been older stuff like Bandits, didnt even go into the place or speak to the mechanics it was out of bounds with the virus rules etc. Its defintely changed the bike for the better the way I ride, I wanted a smoother power delivery for lower speed running.
 

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How does the woolich quickshifter perform? I was tossing up getting a translogic QS. It's about the same price as the additional for the race tools package so maybe some more bang for buck there but I also couldn't see me ever using anything other than the QS if I'm honest.
The quick shifter is great, I've never had one before so no comparisons but after a couple of years it's still just as smooth as the day I had it installed. I'll admit, $700 is hard to justify but if you have the coin then why not.

Ben knows more about woolich and tuning than all of the users on this forum combined. He knows the owner of woolich personally (he's an Aussie) and he will adjust what's necessary. I'd throw him any bike and ask him to make it right and know it would come back a beast. His workshop is full of race bikes and I even met Mike Jones in there, he had just won the Australian superbike championship.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I got in to see Ben yesterday and do a quick dyno run while the bike was still stock. He certainly is a wealth of info eh. Got the tune booked in for 2 weeks time. In the meantime I also threw the new exhaust on. It's so much more responsive and no longer has that flat spot in the middle. Cant wait to see the final outcome after a tune!
 

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I got in to see Ben yesterday and do a quick dyno run while the bike was still stock. He certainly is a wealth of info eh. Got the tune booked in for 2 weeks time. In the meantime I also threw the new exhaust on. It's so much more responsive and no longer has that flat spot in the middle. Cant wait to see the final outcome after a tune!
Ben is definitely an expert in his field. I'm glad you did a before dyno run, really keen to see the changes.
 

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Ben knows more about woolich and tuning than all of the users on this forum combined.
Guys, this is really not what you want to convey without knowledge or facts. Please stop the misinformation to others that are eager to learn about there bikes. Sure, you have tuners that run dyno's for a living. I don't. However, in over 30 years of tuning, building, riding, drag racing, I've learned a thing or two. And, hanging around pro racers/builders helps a little.

Simply put, as another member tried to explain as well, a Dyno map power gain is really USELESS for the street. It shows you nothing usable in the normal RPM range in every day riding. On a dyno sheet, you are seeing such a NARROW slice of tuning that is > than 80% throttle. How often do you do that on the street? That is SO easy to tune for with basic math. The AFR on the above graph is TOO lean. There may still be an issue with timing or STP's clearly shown by a dip through the curve above 10k. Go ride that bike at 5000ft and tell me how it runs, again at WOT? Leaner AFR's on the dyno will show the most power. Your bike is NOT under the same load as you riding it on the street geared up. 13.2 is too lean. 13.0 is pushing it. 12.8 is what you want. Dont take my word for it. Ask a guy like Gale Banks. You going to tell him he's wrong? What were conditions outside when you ran the 13.2 AFR? If it was hot or even warm out, you will have lean issues when temps start to drop in the fall. This is why the OEM tunes rich.

Very few tuners will take the time and tune all cells of a fuel table. Let alone multiple fuel tables. You need an Eddy Current Dyno and a lot of time. THEN, you have to ride the bike for at least a few days and check the AFR again, and again with a data logging wideband. Your BEST tuners will take weeks and weeks with an EGR and Lamda for each cylinder. My last bike took about 2 weeks of day on day off riding with Woolich's setup. They make it as simple as possible to understand for the DIY'r. If you know what to look for, Woolich will not tell you, its obvious as **** what the OEM does to kill power.

FACT, fuel alone will NOT net substantial gains. The tweaks you make to a map helps drivabilty. You could be a full AFR point off and move the map in the correct direction and net only 3 HP. That's normal. That's tweaking for the best. So, after tuning, you ride and make more adjustments for the "drivability" that may deviate from your target AFR. This is not a drag bike. I use it for hard twistie riding and long trips. Goal for me is throttle transitioning going into and outta turns. However, I want as much acceleration when coming out of a turn without being abrupt. Only way to tune this is ride/tune, ride/tune. ride/tune. So, when you pay for a custom ECU re-flash from someone like Shoodeben Engineering, you get a perfect sport touring calibration. He dyno's to get close. Then he rides it for a few weeks. Checks and rechecks. You CANNOT do this in one dyno session. NO WAY no how.

I haven't touched my fuel yet as its to **** hot out here. IT's no problem because this bike clearly shows low 12 AFR's and dipping to the 11's with stock calibration. And that's an after cat BS reading. So, its richer than that. I've reflashed 8 times I think. I have dyno'd just to see what max timing I can get away with and what de-restricting the Secondary Throttle Plates does. When you adjust timing in specific area's (RPM and TPS), watch what it does to the AFR. Things like this are what real tuners look for and not just the ones tuning for peak dyno numbers trying to make a buck. My peak gains (12HP) are probably more than what some are getting installing a full pipe. AGAIN, useless for the street. OK, I did roll-ons to 120 with a ZX14. He beat me of course, but surprisingly, it wasn't by very much.

Anybody who buys a Woolich kit, and starts the tuning process themselves is only way ahead of the game if they understand the basics of tuning and how adjusting one table affects another. Knowing that importing target AFR maps that the auto tune spits out is NOT a good idea. Understanding what cell interpolation means. Graph smoothing as this is what really affects drivability. If you have a kit, look at other bike's bin's with a similar motor. Are they different? Why? Are they similar? If bore, stroke and compression is very close, look at the timing.

Ive sat in front of my laptop for hours and hours after getting home from work. I do coding for a living. You eventually start to see subtle differences and commonalities between calibrations. Then I go out in the garage and try them. My bike is SO much better than what it was only 5 weeks ago...
 

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Guys, this is really not what you to convey without knowledge or facts. Please stop the misinformation to others that are eager to learn about there bikes. Sure, you have tuners that run dyno's for a living. I don't. However, in over 30 years of tuning, building, riding, drag racing, I've learned a thing or two. And, hanging around pro racers/builders helps a little.

Simply put, as another member tried to explain as well, a Dyno map power gain is really USELESS for the street. It shows you nothing usable in the normal RPM range in every day riding. On a dyno sheet, you are seeing such a NARROW slice of tuning that is > than 80% throttle. How often do you do that on the street? That is SO easy to tune for with basic math. The AFR on the above graph is TOO lean. There may still be an issue with timing or STP's clearly shown by a dip through the curve above 10k. Go ride that bike at 5000ft and tell me how it runs, again at WOT? Leaner AFR's on the dyno will show the most power. Your bike is NOT under the same load as you riding it on the street geared up. 13.2 is too lean. 13.0 is pushing it. 12.8 is what you want. Dont take my word for it. Ask a guy like Gale Banks. You going to tell him he's wrong? What were conditions outside when you ran the 13.2 AFR? If it was hot or even warm out, you will have lean issues when temps start to drop in the fall. This is why the OEM tunes rich.

Very few tuners will take the time and tune all cells of a fuel table. Let alone multiple fuel tables. You need an Eddy Current Dyno and a lot of time. THEN, you have to ride the bike for at least a few days and check the AFR again, and again with a data logging wideband. Your BEST tuners will take weeks and weeks with an EGR and Lamda for each cylinder. My last bike took about 2 weeks of day on day off riding with Woolich's setup. They make it as simple as possible to understand for the DIY'r. If you know what to look for, Woolich will not tell you, its obvious as **** what the OEM does to kill power.

FACT, fuel alone will NOT net substantial gains. The tweaks you make to a map helps drivabilty. You could be a full AFR point off and move the map in the correct direction and net only 3 HP. That's normal. That's tweaking for the best. So, after tuning, you ride and make more adjustments for the "drivability" that may deviate from your target AFR. This is not a drag bike. I use it for hard twistie riding and long trips. Goal for me is throttle transitioning going into and outta turns. However, I want as much acceleration when coming out of a turn without being abrupt. Only way to tune this is ride/tune, ride/tune. ride/tune. So, when you pay for a custom ECU re-flash from someone like Shoodeben Engineering, you get a perfect sport touring calibration. He dyno's to get close. Then he rides it for a few weeks. Checks and rechecks. You CANNOT do this in one dyno session. NO WAY no how.

I haven't touched my fuel yet as its to **** hot out here. IT's no problem because this bike clearly shows low 12 AFR's and dipping to the 11's with stock calibration. And that's an after cat BS reading. So, its richer than that. I've reflashed 8 times I think. I have dyno'd just to see what max timing I can get away with and what de-restricting the Secondary Throttle Plates does. When you adjust timing in specific area's (RPM and TPS), watch what it does to the AFR. Things like this are what real tuners look for and not just the ones tuning for peak dyno numbers trying to make a buck. My peak gains (12HP) are probably more than what some are getting installing a full pipe. AGAIN, useless for the street. OK, I did roll-ons to 120 with a ZX14. He beat me of course, but surprisingly, it wasn't by very much.

Anybody who buys a Woolich kit, and starts the tuning process themselves is only way ahead of the game if they understand the basics of tuning and how adjusting one table affects another. Knowing that importing target AFR maps that the auto tune spits out is NOT a good idea. Understanding what cell interpolation means. Graph smoothing as this is what really affects drivability. If you have a kit, look at other bike's bin's with a similar motor. Are they different? Why? Are they similar? If bore, stroke and compression is very close, look at the timing.

Ive sat in front of my laptop for hours and hours after getting home from work. I do coding for a living. You eventually start to see subtle differences and commonalities between calibrations. Then I go out in the garage and try them. My bike is SO much better than what it was only 5 weeks ago...
There we are, thats telling you..........
 

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There's nothing stopping people from tuning their own bike. My statement could be wrong but it's unlikely even after reading your wall of text. It was never intended to discourage people from learning.
Start a thread for like minded individuals who are willing to purchase the woolich kit and spend countless hours on the process.
 

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Start a thread for like minded individuals who are willing to purchase the woolich kit and spend countless hours on the process.
That is really Not what I meant. Suzuki's SE's that developed this calibration probably took a little longer than an hour unlike a typical in/out Dyno shop. It takes days if not weeks to perfect a calibration. You can't do it in an hour. It's impossible. The tables that are exposed by Woolich are a tiny tiny fraction of the actual code in an ECM. There are shops/tuners that sell flashes for specific bikes that have been perfected. They spend days and weeks getting them tweaked. It may take me longer to get an outstanding tune as I don't do it for a living. I enjoy it though. It's a hobby that's rewarding when I hop on the bike and roll into it knowing I tuned it and without a doubt, trust what I did. I and all else needs to understand that the tuning process takes time to get it right. Serious experience shortens that time though. You know what to look for and adjust. Still, even if you tune a bunch of Kawasaki zx14's, doesn't mean you can tune a gsxs1000 to perfection in an hour either.

Think about this, with an AFR of 13.2 on a hot day, do you think that tuner took into account what fuel trim is going to do? Ram air pressurization of the airbox at speed? What octane was the fuel in the bike when on the Dyno? What if the only fuel available on your trip was 86 octane? There is so much we overlook that Suzuki's software engineers take into account. Not sure what you mean by countless hours. An exorbitant amount of unnecessary time? I would think it is necessary.
 

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That is really Not what I meant. Suzuki's SE's that developed this calibration probably took a little longer than an hour unlike a typical in/out Dyno shop. It takes days if not weeks to perfect a calibration. You can't do it in an hour. It's impossible. The tables that are exposed by Woolich are a tiny tiny fraction of the actual code in an ECM. There are shops/tuners that sell flashes for specific bikes that have been perfected. They spend days and weeks getting them tweaked. It may take me longer to get an outstanding tune as I don't do it for a living. I enjoy it though. It's a hobby that's rewarding when I hop on the bike and roll into it knowing I tuned it and without a doubt, trust what I did. I and all else needs to understand that the tuning process takes time to get it right. Serious experience shortens that time though. You know what to look for and adjust. Still, even if you tune a bunch of Kawasaki zx14's, doesn't mean you can tune a gsxs1000 to perfection in an hour either.

Think about this, with an AFR of 13.2 on a hot day, do you think that tuner took into account what fuel trim is going to do? Ram air pressurization of the airbox at speed? What octane was the fuel in the bike when on the Dyno? What if the only fuel available on your trip was 86 octane? There is so much we overlook that Suzuki's software engineers take into account. Not sure what you mean by countless hours. An exorbitant amount of unnecessary time? I would think it is necessary.
My bike runs great. I'm not sure if that's relevant but I guess that's all that matters. I just can't read another wall of text leading nowhere.
 

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My bike runs great. I'm not sure if that's relevant but I guess that's all that matters. I just can't read another wall of text leading nowhere.
Wall of irrelevant text leading nowhere? This is sheer ignorance of what engineers do. What I'm trying to explain is a minute fraction of what true software engineering is and what it entails. The work that goes into the calibration. Then, what happens to it when it has to pass emissions and Euro 4.

Seriously, your comment is mindless. Any person with common sense and a willingness to learn knows what type of person you must be.
 

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Wall of irrelevant text leading nowhere? This is sheer ignorance of what engineers do. What I'm trying to explain is a minute fraction of what true software engineering is and what it entails. The work that goes into the calibration. Then, what happens to it when it has to pass emissions and Euro 4.

Seriously, your comment is mindless. Any person with common sense and a willingness to learn knows what type of person you must be.
We don't need a molecular breakdown of the fuel that we put in our tanks either, an octane rating will suffice. You're just upset that I suggested Ben from cube is more experienced and qualified than yourself which is still true. Facts don't care about your feelings.
 

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Ben is definitely an expert in his field. I'm glad you did a before dyno run, really keen to see the changes.
Hi Cain,
I sent you a PM a few days ago.
This is the first use for me on this new site, so I am presuming it would be like the old web site and give you a pop up notice of a PM arrival.

Rob.
 
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