[mike d]

Another sign winter is taking it's toll on us in the top hemisphere. Wait... or do you guys down there just think of the world upside down from us and your on top? Anyway... not enough time to ride and too much time to dig through old threads.

 

[LEAVEITSTOCK]

Another sign winter is taking it's toll on us in the top hemisphere. Wait... or do you guys down there just think of the world upside down from us and your on top? Anyway... not enough time to ride and too much time to dig through old threads.

20 below this morning

 

[frog4aday]

Since the 'old' thread is alive, I felt I should point out that dyno's are not directly comparable. They are all unique. One tuner's dyno might show 145hp at the rear wheel and you could drive it down the street to a different shop's dyno and it'll read 139hp at the rear wheel. The number is mostly a starting point for a tuning shop. They make mods then re-dyno the bike and see how it worked (better/worse/no different.)



Then there is the technique used for strapping the bike into the dyno. Did shop "A" tighten the rear wheel down with more down force than shop "B"? Then it might have more traction and produce a higher number, or it might have more friction/drag and produce a lower number. Basically you could dyno a bike, take it off the dyno, re-mount it on the dyno and do it again, and get a different number. It should be close, but I wouldn't get my panties in a bundle over a 5hp variation between different dynos.


The Hayabusa is a great example. Motorcycle Consumer News tested their 1999 bike and found it put out 151.1 rwhp. Sportrider tested their 1999 Hayabusa and came up with 156.6 rwhp. Suzuki was claiming 173 hp, but didn't say if that was at the crank or the rear wheel. Based on the dyno findings, it was obviously a crankshaft measurement, which is always higher and makes for better marketing. Considering Suzuki advertises 145hp for the GSX-S1000 (2016 model) and it puts out an actual 140 rwhp (plus or minus a few, depending on the dyno and bike) is impressive. Honesty in advertising is a beautiful thing!



While horsepower is great to talk about, the weight of the bike has to be considered to get a real feel for how powerful a bike might seem on the street. A GSX-S1000 with 140 rwhp and a wet weight of 460lbs (209kg) would mean every horsepower has to haul 3.29 lbs (1.49kg). A Hayabusa with 155 rwhp and weighing 550lbs (wet) means every horsepower has to haul 3.55lbs (1.61kg). When considered in this realm, the GSX-S1000 has a better power-to-weight ratio than the vaunted 'Busa!


Long way of saying, the GSX-S1000 has plenty of power-to-weight to make just about any rider happy. Worry less about dyno numbers and focus more on sorting out that rear suspension if you want to be fast. Better tires would help, too. (D214s aren't that grippy)

 

[PhuketPaul]

While horsepower is great to talk about, the weight of the bike has to be considered to get a real feel for how powerful a bike might seem on the street. A GSX-S1000 with 140 rwhp and a wet weight of 460lbs (209kg) would mean every horsepower has to haul 3.29 lbs (1.49kg). A Hayabusa with 155 rwhp and weighing 550lbs (wet) means every horsepower has to haul 3.55lbs (1.61kg). When considered in this realm, the GSX-S1000 has a better power-to-weight ratio than the vaunted 'Busa!

Whilst I agree 100% with what you said you forgot the rider....

with a 90Kg rider GSXS 299KG gives 2.13Kg per horsepower and the Hayabusa 340Kg gives 2.19Kg per horse power so hardly any difference, but I agree with the sentiment but then again the Hayabusa was built for top speed not acceleration

 

[Jorider61]

Horse power don't mean much on the street and in the twisty s , I got a buddy with a KTM 390, the thing has about 40 hp but when he is is a mood to crank it he is a pain in the butt to keep up with. But it is fun

 

[frog4aday]

PhuketPaul - you make a great point. I expected to hear someone chime in that torque plays a big role in how a bike feels and the Busa has that in spades, but I hadn't considered the rider weight perspective and that can't be ignored. Nice!



JoRider61 - you are so correct; the rider makes ALL the difference. This was made clear to me one day in southern Missouri when a guy went flying by our sportbike-riding group on a Honda Pacific Coast! The bike was flailing away with inadequate suspension damping but the guy wasn't slowing down. The best rider in our group, on a GSX-R1000, went after the guy and...got left in the dust. It was amazing and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I got to experience it myself at a Jason Pridmore trackday school as one of his instructors came flying by me on a B-King as casual as could be, while I was giving it my all on a second generation FZ-1, ha!


It's not about your buddy having 5 more horsepower than you do; it's about being able to use the power you have to its fullest extent. A bike that handles great can be far more fun to ride than one with a bunch of power but a really crappy suspension.

 

[PhuketPaul]

Torque is King not horsepower.

Last week I did a round trip to the Dyno (1200km)

Because I wasn't wearing my race boots I adjusted the gear lever down slightly the evening before I left, but as I was reattaching the rear part of the linkage I got interrupted by my Girlfruend and I forgot to torque the bolt up.

We left at 5am the next morning and about an hour into the journey as I was slowing to enter a town I went to change down from 6th gear and couldn't find the gear lever. The rear bolt had come out and my linkage was only connected at the front

For the next hour through town, villages, many traffic lights including uphill traffic lights I could only use 6th gear......

The bike was awesome - hardly any clutch slip needed to pull away, could accelerate as fast the traffic around me whilst all the time stuck in 6th gear - the other bikes around me tried to pull away in 6th and either couldn't or needed extreme amounts of clutch slip - love this bike

Found some where that i could get a bolt 100km later...

 

[Jorider61]

PhuketPaul - you make a great point. I expected to hear someone chime in that torque plays a big role in how a bike feels and the Busa has that in spades, but I hadn't considered the rider weight perspective and that can't be ignored. Nice!



JoRider61 - you are so correct; the rider makes ALL the difference. This was made clear to me one day in southern Missouri when a guy went flying by our sportbike-riding group on a Honda Pacific Coast! The bike was flailing away with inadequate suspension damping but the guy wasn't slowing down. The best rider in our group, on a GSX-R1000, went after the guy and...got left in the dust. It was amazing and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I got to experience it myself at a Jason Pridmore trackday school as one of his instructors came flying by me on a B-King as casual as could be, while I was giving it my all on a second generation FZ-1, ha!


It's not about your buddy having 5 more horsepower than you do; it's about being able to use the power you have to its fullest extent. A bike that handles great can be far more fun to ride than one with a bunch of power but a really crappy suspension.

You had a FZ1 so did I . 2001 first gen, I had that bike for 13 years. I loved that bike, sold it to my friend after 85,000 miles . It still runs great.I'm still a member of the FZ1OA board, years ago I went to the rallys down at Deals Gap me and about 200 Fz1's

 

[frog4aday]

Hey Jorider61,
Those first generation FZ1s were awesome. You sure racked up a lot of miles on yours (85,000!) I got the 2nd generation because I wanted EFI but Yamaha screwed the pooch by fitting a smaller gas tank, putting in a motor that needed to be revved to the moon to come alive, and a more cramped "sportbike" riding position. It was a disappointment and I traded it for a 2006 FJR1300.


The best handling bike I've owned was a Suzuki DL650. That bike was so confident inspiring in corners with tons of front end feel. I was able to humble more than a few sportbikes when the tight, twisty roads appeared. Of course they left me in the dust when the curves opened up and become straightaways. Next best handling bike was the CBR954RR (Fireblade) and it had the power and brakes to make it the best all-around machine I've owned, but I'm hoping the GSX-S1000 will overtake it with a few easy mods (new rear shock, better tires, EBC HH brake pads.) Bikes are fun. Riding is a blast. And horsepower has only a small roll in the big scheme of things.

 

[WOLFIE]

Ive had mine re mapped still got the cat on it and its at 150 hp if id have de catted it beforehand which i now know i should have they said id get even more

 

[Jorider61]

Hey Jorider61,
Those first generation FZ1s were awesome. You sure racked up a lot of miles on yours (85,000!) I got the 2nd generation because I wanted EFI but Yamaha screwed the pooch by fitting a smaller gas tank, putting in a motor that needed to be revved to the moon to come alive, and a more cramped "sportbike" riding position. It was a disappointment and I traded it for a 2006 FJR1300.


The best handling bike I've owned was a Suzuki DL650. That bike was so confident inspiring in corners with tons of front end feel. I was able to humble more than a few sportbikes when the tight, twisty roads appeared. Of course they left me in the dust when the curves opened up and become straightaways. Next best handling bike was the CBR954RR (Fireblade) and it had the power and brakes to make it the best all-around machine I've owned, but I'm hoping the GSX-S1000 will overtake it with a few easy mods (new rear shock, better tires, EBC HH brake pads.) Bikes are fun. Riding is a blast. And horsepower has only a small roll in the big scheme of things.

So you like middle weight sport tourer's then you would love my Yamaha FJ09. My buddy same guy that has the KTM has a DL650, the man has 6 bikes anyway.We were in Vermont for a weekend blast I said to him you have to try this thing in A mode we traded and he took off for a hour , it was funny he didn't want to give me my bike back. I liked that DL too. Best handling bike I ever owned was my 2007 Tuono , the frame and the suspension were second to none IMHO and the sound of that Vtwin was awesome with those Tig Craft pipes. I put a lot of miles on that bike and the problems with the electrical system was starting to get expensive .

 

[frog4aday]

I've had mine re-mapped; still got the cat on it and it's at 150 hp. If I'd de-catted it beforehand, which I now know I should have, they said I'd get even more.

Hey Wolfie, I'm always curious how much power the 'average' person can extract from a given bike. With the most modern bikes, there is still power to be found by dismantling or deactivating emission control devices and weight to be removed by putting on a full aftermarket race exhaust, along with the attendant increase in outflow. Match that with a less restrictive air-filter and a fuel re-map (PC-V or ECU flash) and even more horses are released.

I think the real question is - how much horsepower is 'enough'? When would YOU be happy? You've already upped your horsepower figure by about 10 ponies above stock. What if punching the catalytic converter got you another 2hp...would that be enough? And I'm not picking at YOU! I'm just curious. When you start going down the 'get more horsepower' road, do you have an end goal in mind that would make you satisfied or does it kind of become like this never ending pursuit where you are always looking for that next 'thing' that will give you another bump in power?


I knew a guy in Mississippi who took up motorcycle drag racing (informally) and he started to itch for more power. I could understand that. Power meant lower times at the strip. But for the 'average' street rider, the better money investment (assuming the goal is to go faster) is in suspension. I know - BORING! But seriously, when the bike grips and provides feedback on what is happening at the contact patches, you can safely/comfortably go faster without needing more power.


As for regretting NOT de-catting your bike, don't sweat it too much. There isn't much more to be gained there AND you are doing the air we all breathe a favor by leaving a few more hydrocarbons out of it.

 

[frog4aday]

So you like middle weight sport tourer's then you would love my Yamaha FJ09. My buddy same guy that has the KTM has a DL650, the man has 6 bikes anyway.We were in Vermont for a weekend blast I said to him you have to try this thing in A mode we traded and he took off for a hour , it was funny he didn't want to give me my bike back. I liked that DL too. Best handling bike I ever owned was my 2007 Tuono , the frame and the suspension were second to none IMHO and the sound of that Vtwin was awesome with those Tig Craft pipes. I put a lot of miles on that bike and the problems with the electrical system was starting to get expensive .

I'd love to try a Tuono out some time. The bike mags raved about both the two cylinder and four cylinder versions. Power for days and, as you said, great handling. My kind of bike!


As for electrical problems killing the party, I know exactly what you mean. I had a '97 VFR that nearly bankrupted me with stators and regulator/rectifiers. Then my CBR929RR developed chronic electrical issues at 68,000 miles so I passed it on to a college kid who was using it for commuting and knew the history of the bike. He got it super cheap and was happy. But dang if I don't miss that bike. Probably like you missing your Tuono.


As for the DL650, I think it is the best all-around bargain to be found. It is cheap to buy, cheap to own, and provides tons of fun along the way, both on and off-road (though it is a bit top-heavy for off-roading.) I only got rid of mine because the altitudes I was riding at when I lived in Colorado were so high, it was not cutting it power-wise (for me.)



So many great rides out there. Your FJ09 is a great example - that triple engine is fun. I got to ride an FZ-09 and really thought it was a neat bike (very light and peppy.) To tie this all into the thread at hand, every bike NEEDS a decent amount of horsepower to be entertaining, but once you reach a certain 'threshold', improving the tires and suspension start to release more of the bike's potential. Not that I wouldn't TAKE more horsepower if it was easy to come by

 

[WOLFIE]

Haha yeah im doing my bit for the earth no im happy with how the bike is now been riding mv agustas for a few years so just wanted that extra bit of punch got the suspension set up good now and got some good tires on so yes you are bang on it does make a difference all the best

 

[frog4aday]

It's relative

Haha yeah im doing my bit for the earth no im happy with how the bike is now been riding mv agustas for a few years so just wanted that extra bit of punch got the suspension set up good now and got some good tires on so yes you are bang on it does make a difference all the best

Hey Wolfie,
You bring up a great point; sometimes our bikes feel fine (plenty of power) until we experience something else. In your case, it sounds like the MV Agustas gave you a point of reference (power-wise) for how a bike should be, and you were working toward making the GSX-S1000 give you that same feeling.

I can relate. I had a VFR750 and thought it was awesome. Then my friend let me ride his CBR929RR (Fireblade). BIG MISTAKE. After that, all I wanted was for the VFR to have more power. In the end, I sold the VFR and bought my own Fireblade and was completely happy after that. Until I rode a friend's R1 that had the suspension completely modded/worked over. That was amazing! Then I wanted my CBR to handle that good, ha!


Moral of the story - never ride anyone else's bike or you might be left wanting something and it'll cost you money